SB Nation - Login for mobile commenting

Black Shoe Diaries

Strength and Conditioning Coach John Thomas Out at Penn State

Ah, the annual HIT debate. Well, it looks like this is one season we won't have you to kick around, as sources are saying that John Thomas has been relieved of his duties as Strength and Conditioning coach at Penn State.

HIT, or High Intensity Training, had been the conditioning method of Penn State football players since Thomas' hire in 1991. Critics pointed to the larger, stronger football players at rival schools as evidence that the program simply didn't work to its desired effectiveness.

Since the good majority of the writers on staff here know little to nothing about weight training and conditioning, we asked a familiar face to provide some commentary. What he wrote for us was actually going to be featured in the John Thomas "Meet the Coaches" segment in about 10 days. But since that is now gone, this will have to serve as a goodbye post to John Thomas at the HIT debate.

Star-divide

Ahhh, High Intensity Training. Sound fun? It’s not. Atall. Unless of course you like throwing up or not being able to stand after doing several minutes worth of leg presses or wind sprints. Which in that case, you’re one of those workout weirdoes or a Navy Seal. Good for you.

You ever see that SNLskit with Farley, Carvey, and I think Emilio Estevez was in there…"How Much ‘Ya Bench?". It’s funny. HIT doesn’t think it’s funny. HIT throws the notion that max bench press matters out the window.

Would you believe me if I told you that as a multiyear starter in the Big Ten I never benched over 315 pounds? It’s true. BUT, I repped 315 pounds 9 times once and could rep 225 in the high 20’s. HIT focuses on getting muscle groups used to, or close to, complete failure (i.e.: not having the ability to even use that muscle anymore temporarily).

Think about that. Think about doing 20 repetitions on a leg press machine, not being able to do any more, then your spotter takes 20 pounds off so you can squeeze out a few more reps, then 20 more pounds off, and so on, until there is no weight on the bar and you can’t even extend your legs.

There are two main reasons to train this way; first, it’s safer. Strapping on as much weight as possible and "maxing out" puts undue stress on the joints and muscles. HIT uses lower weights in a more controlled fashion. Second, HIT is designed to get muscles conditioned to perform over longer periods of time. This is the old "we don’t get tired in the 4th quarter" mantra that football teams and trainers love. Except for the rare physical freak of nature like Kareem McCenzie or Levi Brown, you don’t see too many 310+ pounders coming out of PSU.

Joe Paterno loathed overweight linemen. The worst thing that happened to me was the Broncos winning those Super Bowlswith 280-285 pounders and Joe was vindicated (I struggled staying at or around 290). I remember killing myself one summer and reported at like 288 pounds. Joe walked around the stretching line with his weigh-in sheet, paused at me and said "288, huh? Imagine how good you’d look at 280…" I’ve never wanted to hit a 70+ year old in his gigantic testicles before, but I digress. Our S&C program is designed to have fit, strong players who can go the distance.

**********************************

But now, that era is gone. John Thomas is out, and will hopefully be replaced on short notice by Bill O'Brien. Winter workouts are very important to the strength and conditioning of a program, so a new coordinator is needed ASAP. There are a few names being thrown about at the moment, but we'll bring you a new "Meet the Coaches" posts as soon as we learn who the next strength guru is at Penn State.

Ed. - Contributing to this post was a former Penn State offensive lineman, who signed with the Washington Redskins and also played in the XFL. Suffice it to say, this man knows what he's talking about. Many of you know him, as he is a frequent contributor in the comments section. However, he has asked us to keep his identity relatively anonymous. Please respect these wishes if you are familiar with this man.

1 recs  |  143 comments

Comments

Somewhere out there....

STL is smiling.

Great article and perspective by our resident former O-Lineman.

Not ever doubting HITs is a good program but not for O-line playing football.

HITs/Crossfit type of workouts are awesome for Military, Police, etc…not great for football.

Our guys might not be tired in the 4th quarter but they were not dominating the line of scrimmage and functionally strong enough to for big time FB…just my opinion

I have a hard time contesting that.
bad News

Cam Williams is gone. Just committed to OSU. Damn I hate Urban Meyer

Same here...

That sucks. Oh well, maybe we’ll gain a commit back, there are a lot of decommits out there. Let’s hope we can grab one.

It's disappointing

But I’ll never miss a guy who never stepped on the field wearing Blue & White.

good point

I guess I’ll wish him luck as much as it pains me to do so. I’m fine with the LB outlook for our team for a couple years anyways.

He hurts but taking Armani with him will hurt worse.

You think Armani committing would have happened by now

since those two are so close.

I agree. I was surprised they weren’t simultaneous.

Makes sense...

After all his position coach is no longer at the school…oh wait. No well wishes from me, I figured he wanted to be the next Posluzny/Lee/Bowman/Connor/Etc/Etc, whatever, his loss.

My understanding

He already thought he had tackling, pursuit and diagnosing plays down. The one part of his game that was lacking? You guessed it: pile jumping. Meyer promised private lessons with Laurenitis. How do you compete with that?

Despite the fact that Vandy stayed...

He and Armani were very close with their recruiter, Bill Kenney. The lack of a HC was OK with these guys, as long as they were in touch with Kenney. Once BOB came in and got rid of Bill, it was just a matter of time.

Armani not committing to OSU with Cam means, IMO, he’s headed to Ann Arbor or State College. Could still end up in Columbus, but I’d bet it’s a UM/PSU battle. Immediate playing time available at PSU, which has to be enticing.

Good point...

You gotta think though, he’s going to spend the most amount of time with his position coach.

Whatever, I don’t get the mindset of 17/18 yos. Best of luck to Cam until he plays the Lions.

With BOB’s recruiting approach, I’m definitely looking forward to how he does thing with a full year under his belt.

It might be too good to ever be true..

but I would love If Armani Reeves ended up at PSU, and we beat down OSU’s defense for the next 4 years with BOB’s high-powered new offense.

As if that wouldn’t be sweet enough, Camren Williams would hear about his poor decision via Reeves on a daily basis after he leaves Ohio State (notice how I didn’t say graduating).

update

Well then. Apparently BOB and JT see things differently. Here’s wishing JT all the best, and thanks for pushing me to places I never thought I could go. I’ve been a real backer of BOB’s hiring….but there is now a real sense of urgency in getting this ship ready to sail. Winter conditioning is EXTREMELY important. Someone needs to get a handle on these fellas up in Holuba Hall and the weightroom ASAP.

So since you "might" know some things here

In your expert opinion, what is the best type of conditioning for football? From the write up that you had, it seemed to me that HIT was good, yet somewhat flawed. I relaly don’t know anything about this, I was a swimmer and did strength conditioning, didn’t want big muscles just strong lean muslces. I am completely out of my element in that regard.

I think multiple programs can work. And they do.

I really don’t have a certain preference.

No Doubt.....

I know a lot of people put stock in building the beach muscles…..but those aren’t the muscles that get it done on the FB field. I think HIT got a bad rap from a lot of PSU commentators but PSU is not the lone college program using it. Hbeach can speak more to this but it always seemed to me that JVP never got the fact that big OL are (IMO) needed for the wear and tear of Big 10 play. Seems like PSU teams were built more to play agaisnt SEC schools. Also know HBeach has been a big defender of the BOB hire but what about Roof? I have a couple amigos who played for this guy at Duke and they are astounder he is now the DC at Penn State. Seems like a huge joke Vandy and LJ were passed over for this guy.

yeah, my Roof knowledge is limited to what I've read the last ten days

we’ll see I guess

JT had a funny quote

“the only time you bench press on the field is pushing yourself up off the ground”

Not really…but kinda

Just because Roof wasn't a good HC doesn't mean he can't be a good coordinator

Lots of examples of that – Dan Henning, Norv Turner (apparently), etc.

thank you sir

Thanks for all of your insight on this…both on a psu level and from a professional level as a high school coach….I think I finally know who you are now…there’s one way I’d know for sure but don’t wanna state it here lol

pffft

Paige figured it our a long time ago!

It's cool

I don’t mind…I just prefer not to spew my name all over the interwebs

may I

Email you my question so it doesn’t go all over the site?

Relax . . .

We’re hiring Joe Weider. Our guys will be swinging Indian Clubs before the month is out.

Winter conditioning is what struck me on this as well

I expected JT would be kept around through the spring to keep the workouts going. Anybody have any tweedle-do info from the players re. the winter conditioning?

also.....

portions of the post obviously were no longer relevant, so it may seem a bit fractured.

How did you train when you were playing pro ball?

More Olympic style lifts?

Did you think it made a difference?

well, training for the pro day or combine

is a lot of bench press work, obviously.

The redskins at the time employed one of JT;‘s prfessional mentors…can’t recall his name (I wasn’t there as long as I hoped :) )….so they used a lot of HIT…but guys have a lot of free reign to do what style they like. The pros are expected to be in shape. It’s their job…it’s a much different dynamic, there are no JT’s in the NFL.

Did all the players use HIT - or just the linemen?
The fun part is

you can find other strength programs fairly easily through the googles. LSU, for instance, uses 9 core exercises (some main, like bench, squat, and clean, some supplemental), but they’re all, big, heavy-weight lifts. Quite the opposite of what we’re used to.

I really doubt you've spent a whole lot of time in the weightroom

Internet warrior…

Oh, I haven't

I just enjoy reading about them online. Wouldn’t expect you to have any valuable input on this subject, though.

is that in between your forays into mild porn?
I see I've been bested

Back to the bridge with me…

your input could be quite valuable in this online community

especially if you stop fucking with me young man.

dude, what the fuck's your problem?
I'm thinking they know each other?

If not, what a collosal dick.

They do know eachother

But Nuclear Lion is also a collosal dick (disclaimer: I know him too)

there you go, ruining my reputation.

I haven’t had the opportunity to put up such fancy fanposts yet, unlike you.

lol

truck o’saurus is a friend of mine from school who started trolling me when i started contributing.

ain’t a thang. i was a little worried if i was a dick to him i might get that reaction. looks like it ended up happening.

aha

carry on then….ball busting is a pastime of mine

LOL

you guys keep it up and Junny will close the comments

/ducks for cover

“Friend” seems to be a bit generous here.

ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS TALK ABOUT WEIGHTLIFTING, DAMMIT.

aw, cupcakes, don't be sore

what about weightlifting do you want to talk about? what’s your deadlift up to these days?

you guys want us to leave you alone so you two can make out?

…not that there’s anything wrong with that…

It's getting up there

Thanks to Truck O’Saurus’s patented deer-spray-and-beer olympic training program, I’m on track to be the strongest female in America!

If only I was a girl…

Bet I could still take you on

And win!

How much deer spray do you take?
HIT is the program...

responsible for conditioning the team that has handed LSU its only non-conference loss in the Miles era.

Didn't you hear

that the win against LSU does not count because of the bad field conditions???

it was muddy. doesn't count. they only play on turf in the SEC
I like endurance . . .

But you also have to game plan with the idea of winning in the fourth quarter, and then resist the temptation to waiver from that plan.

Here is the University of Florida's program under Mickey Mariotti

who is now running tOSU’s program

http://www.hawgtuff.net/FloridaStrengthManual.pdf

The money quote
I’ve never wanted to hit a 70+ year old in his gigantic testicles before

Interesting development, JT being let go. I’d have to guess, going off what I’ve seen and heard from BOB so far, that he’s got a substitute immediately in mind….well, now that I type that, I could also see him being organized enough to institute an operational/procedural strength-training program using his existing coaching staff and without having a dedicated position-holder.

Basically, I’ve said nothing. But that quote remains awesome.

don't think that can happen

you got to have a S&C guy for contact in the offseason. ass’t coaches can’t do it per NCAA rules

hhmmm.

And now we have a new S&T coach.

So it was said. Unto we.

hold up...

Junny played football?

oops

didn’t read the addendum. I’m dum.

Actually, I did one summer of organized ball.

7th grade, best tight end that peewee league saw.

You must love the BOB hire

you know, as a former TE.

I've got a few years of eligibility left.

At this right, there might be a spot for me in this class.

right = rate
I told my brother he should walk on as a kicker.

Played goalie in soccer for a long time, has a decent leg. Once you get your foot in the door, slip ol’ Fera a bottle of Cruzan and you’re the starter in no time.

oh JV memories...

best game of my life, put on that Garnet Valley Jaguar uniform and kicked the snot out of those Unionville pansies… 3 sacks in one half, then turned back into my regular moderately athletic but non football talented self…

nice

I musta been playing Varsity that week

:)

funny funny...

You’re lucky you didn’t have to face a pash rush phenom like me…

But yea, you were bout 10 years before me…

Dog soldiers?

The jags were a small school back then

That district blew up from what I gather.

Don't get the dog soldier reference
That's hitting pretty close to home

The first year Unionville had a football team in 1974 the student body (all 400 of us) cut the corn fields down by hand to make room for the bleacher (singular), and that wasn’t no pansy work! Unfortunately seniors weren’t eligible for the new team for obvious reasons so us soccer players just laughed watching this new team cheat and use their hands to move the ball. It was UGLY, but great memories. Garnet Valley…that’s accredited now huh?

I'm a product of your labors

Unionville 95

I should have been smart enough to figure that out

Us Cornfield High (as we were known then) folks took alot of pride in your success, and congrats on that success at all levels. 40th UHS reunion is in two years (seems impossible) and hope to spend a little time re-visiting the area—-grew up in Chadds Ford.

loved coach Ricci (sp?) by the way
Ricci sp correct

I work with his brother Peej. Great guy as well.

good guy...
Cool....tell him i said hi.

Him and my coach were (are) pals.

Looks like Skyler is visiting Florida

Not sure if that means his dad is looking South instead of West to coach. But not good either way. To lose him and Williams would be tough.

Any news on how the visits are going today?

Sekrah (not sure why I still follow this guy) is saying that the staff asked him to play Safety so that is why he is reopening his recruitment. I’m not sure why this would be the case but if they dont think he’s all that great of a starting QB maybe we aren’t losing much…

Asking a 4 star QB recruit to switch positions?

Something sounds fishy there. You realized Sekrah also said Les Miles would be coaching in happy valley, right?

Correction, 3 star.

Still sounds unlikely to me.

Almost all of his other offers were for him to play safety.

And considering all of the QBs that BOB is going after… its definitely possible.

Watch the film...

Watch his highlight video. He’s a better safety than a quarterback. He’d be a 4 or 5 star safety prospect if he wanted to play there. Makes perfect sense to me.

Interesting

I stand corrected, and was completely unaware of the interest in him at safety. Admittedly, I don’t follow recruiting that closely.It just seemed odd to me to switch a three star QB recruit to another position. But if that’s the case, it makes sense.

Did Brett Brackett have stars?

He was a HS QB.

Excellent job by the guest contributor

I’m glad you did not kick Joe in his gigantic testicles.

Maybe we can just buy some P90X and Insanity CD’s, with a some Yoga from Rodney Yee thrown in for R&R?

There's 2 CrossFit gyms in SC

Just send them all there!

i was looking for an S&C coach like Richard Simmons.

A little rockin to the oldies anyone?

as long as he doesn't change the uniforms
Just saw that South Carolina's strength coach resigned and is purported to be headed to PSU.

Craig Fitzgerald is his name….

I read some stuff on South Carolina's board and they dont seem too happy about this.

Which I take as… good.

New SC Craig Fitzgerald

has Philly roots and knows John Butler.

I like that these guys from around the country are coming back to PA. Hopefully they all want to be a part of something special

Sounds good

Coached S&C at Harvard and Maryland.

Link to Craig Fitzgerald video.

Love the big tire

Does he also do the keg toss?

As the Resident Gamecock, I guess this makes me the expert on Mr. Fitzgerald...

I make no qualms about my first allegiance being to my undergraduate institution, so you’ll understand how lucky Penn State is when I say that I am extremely disappointed to see Coach Fitz leave USC.

This guy has completely revamped South Carolina’s S&C program, and he is a HUGE reason that we’re now turning in double-digit win seasons and considered a legitimate force in the SEC and. He’s an incredible strength coach, an even better motivator and has a great deal of passion for both football and the S&C program.

I cannot stress this enough: Penn State’s players became exponentially better today…EXPONENTIALLY.

Cool

I love JT. But there’s nothing wrong with new blood.

Gamecock fans are pretty cool.

I jumped on their boards while Marcus Lattimore was in play, and they treated me right.

Only, SC people can’t drive for crap for some reason. Here in NC, when I see a bone-headed move, it’s 50-50 the car plates are Georgia or SC. WT—????

Isnt "john thomas"

British slang for a pee-pee?

Yup

Here is the best source for that to.

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you Monty Python

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGRPFUYUUdQ

Rec for Monty Python ref!
The way I saw it

JT And the HIT were fine — if we ran the kind of offense that fit the S&C system. You want lean and mean players who can run circles around those fatties in the 4th quarter? Great, I’m all for it, let’s run Oregon’s offense — let’s go no huddle. But when it’s 4th and 1 in the 2nd quarter, don’t expect to blow Iowa off the line with the FB dive.

If the HIT program works the way I understand it, we simply applied it wrong. If we had run a hurry up offense and kept a fast tempo, maybe we’d all be singing it’s praises. Imagine if Oregon and Wisconsin switched S&C coaches how bad that would turn out. I think that’s kind of what happened to us.

That doesn't really make sense to me.

Oregon’s offense starts outscoring you right away in the first quarter. It’s not about getting the defense tired, it’s about catching the defense with the wrong personnel and off guard. On the other hand, a run heavy offense relies on wearing down the defense and doing their damage in the second half, especially the 4th quarter.

I think your a bit wrong

I think Oregon’s offense runs at such a high pace, it tires out the big guys along the line, which then opens up more holes for the running attack. They hit go at like 30 seconds remaining on the play clock. That up tempo does tire out the offense who is used to a slow pace attack, like snap the ball with 5 seconds left on game clock, not 30.

Multiple that what, 60 times during the game, and see the results.

Well,

in the past two years, they have scored more points in the first half. Based on my quick count anyway.

And catching the defense with the wrong personnel and off guard doesn’t necessarily require you to snap the ball right away, just to get to the line and prevent them from substitutions and huddling.

Great point(s)
Aww man!

I wanted to know who this person was. Oh well.

Thanks for the input, random person!

It's not a big deal.

I was #51 in the late 90’s

Man that's cheating.

I had to dig through XFL rosters to figure it out. You’re making it too easy.

there was a letterman's site

that listed current locations for each one… add that to his name and it was fairly easy…

I think the annual media guide has hometowns and professions of all lettermen
I thought part of the reason Joe like HIT was that it doesn't take as much time

as an Olympic style training system? It seems like doing each exercise once to failure takes less time than doing 3 or 5 sets of each with a bunch of rest in between. Will players now have to spend more time conditioning? Are there NCAA limits on that? Just curious.

You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Black Shoe Diaries to post a comment.