Black Shoe Diaries

Good Lord

How is this not green yet? At the very top of the thread, no less…

PSU_Buch - January 6, 2012 reply

I cant stop laughing at the Hello Yes, this is dog picture. Thank you, I needed that.

I'll be as thrilled as anyone if he succeeds.

Sadly, there is nothing on his resume that makes me think that success will be the likely outcome of this hire.

If no success, can we at least have honor? Given the BoT’s actions these last few months, I’m not holding my breath.

mushdamma - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

Best news so far is that this is a pretty big risk. That being the best news isn't great news, I don't think.

To your second point, he came from a good school, we can pretend that means he’s serious about academics, even though we have no idea. There isn’t anything in his leadership past to suggest either way.

wasn't there an academic scandal at Duke while he was there?

No, it was at GT.

oh ok, but point remains

As mvrck said, it was at GT

They were found to have played several star athletes who were later found to be ineligible. They apparently hadn’t made progress toward graduation. #byebyesuccesswithhonor?

I think that went moniker went the way of the dodo when the scandal broke, boss.

Not being a smartass...

I don’t understand what you wrote. Can you explain that?

Success with honor...

That theme went out the window when the shit hit the fan. Right now I would settle for not harboring pedophiles.

You are either part of the problem or a troll

Either way, I’m done debating with you for that statement.

Because I'm not a fan of what went on here?

Yeah, that makes me part of the problem.

Just a polite piece of advice...

now is not the time.

no one is a fan of what went on here

No one is suggesting that they were a fan of what happened.

The fact that you would bring that up in this thread concerns me.

Uhaul isn't being a troll by his comment

the idea of “Success with Honor” did kind of go down the crapper—as a brand—as soon as someone not named Jerry Sandusky knew little kids were being assaulted and nothing was done.

The truth hurts.

Mike Pettigano - January 6, 2012 reply

You couldn't be more wrong with this

unless you were named Dave Joyner.

And yes he is trolling.

Paging M1EK, M1EK

please report to the thread….

Success with Honor still holds...

All those kids who played for us and won, guys like Lavar Arrington, Dan Connor, Paul Posluszny, etc… Do you think they suddenly feel like they played without honor? No way.

The shit with Sandusky is separate.

Success with honor means not selling your memorabilia for tats. It means not taking cash and cars from boosters. It means not letting an agent buy you a suit before the heisman ceremony…

We still have success with honor. The day that’s gone is the day I become a Miami fan.

87Townie - January 6, 2012 reply

Brown, Duke, Maryland on his resume.

I think that successwithhonor is safer in trust to him than most of the other non-PSU hires we could have made.

Rogue Nine - January 6, 2012 reply

Well, I can see that

But between that issue and the fact that he;s a patriots coach, I’m skeptical.

I don't think we can discount his decency merely b/c he coached with the Pats.

I’m more concerned about his qualifications.

Didn't WorldBFat change the Wiki this afternoon?

It can only mean that WorldBFat is Chris Mortensen.

did this really happen?

If BSD is the source on this…mygod…

he changed it to him being the HC of Jacksonville

not Penn State.

The original was PSU.

I was going to photoshop on a PSU hat until I got caught at work.

Time to prepare for a University of Oklahoma type of descendence....

Remember that period before Stoops when OU football was terrible for a long time because of all the scandals, I think that is going to happen to PSU football. Time to start rooting for Pat Chambers/Tim Frazier & Geno Thorpe (next year)….Good night!

OLDLIONofNYC - January 6, 2012 reply

Can we start buying players now?

Pft.

If we’re too cheap to pony up for a good coach, there is no way in hell we’d buy players.

If nobody worth a damn wanted the job

There’s something to be said for just going hella cheap and getting this over with.

Still depends on what your definition of "worth a damn" is

I’d prefer Clements or Roman to O’Brien.

Wouldn't that be great at the presser?

“Mr. Joyner, how did you decide on Bill O’Brien as the head coach to succeed Paterno?”

“To be honest, no one else wanted it and I was getting tired of looking.”

“We begged real head coaches, but they just laughed at us.”

Dude, I know you're not trolling

but I’d appreciate if you’d tone it down. You’re really harshing my mellow tonight with this and basically everything else you’re saying.

It's sort of accurate.

I don't think either would have been ideal hires

But holy shit would they be better than this.

exactly

they wouldn’t be even in my top five, but they’d be much better than this.

I just can’t get over the fact that he flat out said that the NFL was his dream job. And they are hiring him rather than others who said that Penn State was their destination job.

I wish you ran this search.

Unlike the idiots that actually did. This makes me so sad.

Well, at least

they had good practice for when they need to conduct this search again.

Although hopefully we have a real AD step in at some point between now and 2014.

sorry,

This a C hire, but he’s still better than Clements, Would have preferred maybe Roman. But as long as it wasn’t Clements I’m not upset.

kingofsmoke - January 6, 2012 reply

Without knowing anything, I’m going to be surprised if he took this cheap. He was making NFL money on a very successful team, he was a strong candidate for NFL positions, and there’s no reason to think he could be gotten at a discount because of some allure of State College that we’ve seen/speculated with Bradley, the SF guy who I’m not learning the name of on purpose, or even someone like Golden.

So if he wanted to be an NFL coach, and was a strong NFL candidate

why did he take this job?

no NFL interest?

read a tweet that said he thought it would be “a challenge”

I'm trying to be positive, but if that is really his attiude to this job...

damn.

His Pats Contract

was up after this season-Perhaps he had gotten wind-or been told-it wasn’t being renewed.

nits4ever - January 6, 2012 reply

It's a good point

But check the Pats Pulpit link above, they had already started blog-shopping for new OCs as of today.

Even if you strike that from the comment, there’s no dream job effect here. For fun and games, I’m going to guess at least $2MM, which is just above Mark Dantonio money.

I dunno,

he was still on an NFL QB coach contract. How much can that really be?

If BOB wants to start strong

In addition to the D hires we all would like, hire Captain Clark as a grad assistant immediately

In all seriousness

If he hired Clark as a GA, it would go a long way to calm me..

Side note: I just got a new laptop. The space bar is finicky. I find myself typing entire sentences that end up as one word because the space bar “didn’t take”.

Clark still wants to be a GA

but he tweeted earlier he’s not sure if it would happen, as new coaches bring in new staffs.

I’d like to see Terrell Golden and Elijah Robinson have chances to stay. Robinson had a hand in Hodges’ season this year.

I would be in favor of pretty much everyone not named "hall"

Sticking around. Don’t think it’ll happen though.

Side note: Who was it that just met him? Did he say anything about the coaching search? Just curious.

I would be shocked if he didn't have at least a few familiar faces on staff.

Even if they were only GAs.

His hire would signal a complete disassocation with the old staff

I think [unfairly] GAs would be included.

A guy on NBC sportsnet tonight said that the main factor inaPSU head coach should be zero ties with PSU before taking the job.It is starting to sound like Joyner sent him that directly.

I figured the hired would have no ties...

But I cannot imagine O’Brien will cast aside EVERY viable PSUer.

isn't that typically what happens with an outside hire?

No, not necessarily.

Most of the time you’ll find a few folks associated with the program make their way on to a staff. Granted, I anticipate most of the coaches will not.

Trying not to throw things

I mean, O’Brien could turn out to be a good hire eventually, but I’m in no way optimistic. Is this really the best we could do?? I would’ve been intrigued by Clements. Not even remotely thrilled by O’Brien. There’s nothing on his resume to suggest he’ll have success here. UGH.

Gopher Broke - January 6, 2012 reply

Agreed, completely

"Is this really the best we could do"... exactly.

It’s not so much that this guy sucks, it’s that so few of us have internalized just how far the program has fallen. This ought to at least accelerate that process…

tonycpsu - January 6, 2012 reply

Cyanide pills, yo

blogue20 - January 6, 2012 reply

Well, I know what you mean

I haven’t even graduated college yet! I can’t take this position.

Wait, WHAT?!

why.

His resume isn’t better, hasn’t been an OC on a successful team. Hasn’t recruited in 15 years. Not saying this is a good hire. But Clements has never been able to land a head job. Been rumored candidates multiple times.

kingofsmoke - January 6, 2012 reply

And...

Clements is 56.

I would have been OK with Clements but I really wanted some young blood leading the program. Now I am older than Clements, but we have had too many semi-retired guys runing this program for years. And I love JoePa and always felt he should leave on his terms.

PaJoe - January 6, 2012 reply

Clements

Clements has quite arguably done a more impressive job developing Rodgers and Flynn than O’Brien has done guiding the well-oiled Patriots machine and not driving it off a cliff. Also, Clements actually wants to be at PSU. One of the primary reasons nobody wants O’Brien is that he’s been openly stumping for NFL jobs, and has stated that he prefers NFL jobs. That means he’ll be gone at the sight of the first satisfactory HC vacancy in the NFL. As many others have said, this hire makes zero sense for everyone involved.

Gopher Broke - January 6, 2012 reply

I was onboard for Clements . . .

I thought he would be worth a shot. He actively pursued the job. And as Breezy has pointed out several times, Clements has succeeded at everything he’s tried to tackle.

Of course at this point I would prefer Terry Hanratty.

Yeah I like to think that the coach who is hired

would have actively pursued the job, not just been indifferent to it.

He was at Duke in 2006.

That’s 5 years, not 15.

Oops! You meant Clements....my bad.

Sorry

guess i should of explained better. I get the disappointment with the hire but would be ok with Clements, I don’t get.

kingofsmoke - January 6, 2012 reply

Who the hell does BOB go after for OC and DC?

If he was smart

he’d have LJ be his DC, especially since he’ll have to do all of his recruiting until he’s done in New England.

Dan Vecellio - January 6, 2012 reply

Amen to that

Recruitmendzadeh ace in the hole

blogue20 - January 6, 2012 reply

You are assuming anyone on the current staff is going to stick around after the way they've been treated

If I were LJ I would give a big one finger salute

That would be smart

But I have a hard time thinking he’d stay.

If true, can we start calling him

Beef O’Brady, in tribute to the bowl game we’re headed for (if lucky)?

FITE HUNGARR

blogue20 - January 6, 2012 reply

Let's all hope Jacksonville gives him a call before Saturday

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, I want him to succeed

Because he’s our new coach and as he goes, Penn State football goes. But if he doesn’t start actually coach NOW, talking to recruits, treating this like a full time job, and an amazing job (which it is), then I will be PISSED OFF.

i’m more so discouraged by his apparent attitude towards this position that he wasnt immediately interested in it…whether or not that is 100% true is in question, but still.

That's my biggest qualm with him

No matter who it was, I wanted them to come in saying, “This is the place for me, we’re going to turn this around together.” So far, it seems as though what he really wants is an NFL job. Obviously, if he comes out at the presser and says all the right things, I’m on board. But right now, I’m skeptical.

I also dont understand why so many current NFL OCs have been rumored to have been interviewed. Whats with the NFL interest? I just dont get it.

To be fair.

He hasn’t said anything yet. Not really.

Didnt his agent initially say he was not interested? May just be bullshit, but regardless i’m upset.

yes, IIRC

Not quite.

he said that he had no contact with PSU, but that he would be interested.

See I have had no contact with google, but if they called me begging I would listen…

Yeah, it was his agent

and jesse.‘s right, he hasn’t said anything yet, technically. But in contrast to Roman, who has a hard on for us, apparently, O’Brien has seemed largely apathetic about the job until now.

I get the Roman thing

but he could have been lying out his ass to try and get a job. Just sayin’

He could be

but that kind of lie will endear a fanbase to you, Saying, basically, “meh, whatever” definitely doesn’t.

Nor will remaining up in New England.

exactly

not really getting off on the right foot. And we are a very passionate fanbase, that can be incredibly loyal. Or incredibly spiteful (see: Paterno, Jay)

I suppose there is some silver lining there.

QBs might actually get developed. I don’t know if this guy can do it, but I know Jay sure as hell cannot.

If he doesn't start working immediately

He will dig a whole so deep that a 10 win + BCS bowl win season won’t save him.

I think you underestimate the power of winning.

Though he won’t smell 10 wins or anything close to it unless he’s in his office in State College on Monday.

Not for me

I’ll be ecstatic for the team if they win 10 and a BCS game. I’ll still think he’s a dick.

Well, we can support a dick....I think...maybe

If he wins & isn’t a scumbag.

I don't think I'll support him if he's a dick

I know Rambler would support this as well.

Eh. Not all good people are warm and inviting.

I just want a decent guy who knows how to coach & recruit. I’m pretty skeptical he fulfills that wish list in toto.

At least hes not Beliema. Yes, I refuse to ever learn how to spell his name.

Bret Beilema just called another timeout.

See, even OBrienSchofieldismyHero refuses to learn how to spell Bielema!

IndianaLion - January 6, 2012 reply

Definitely

I’m just trying to find reasons to be optimistic, even if that is being pessimistic about other guys. Honestly, I want O’’Brien to do well.

Hey, I want me to do well, too!

Whoops.

Right.

What’s his nuts said Pitt was his dream job too.

actually

Pitt was the one location he didn’t say that too, I thought. Only about Tulsa and Az State and whatever the fourth HC job was.

Rice?

No, he said it.

I'd like to think people say what they mean

I know it isn’t realistic, but call me an idealist?

Still, given the choice between someone who says it is there dream job and someone who doesn’t, I’lltake the person who says it’s their dream job.

Coaching is about getting people to believe in you.

There is more than one way to that. Some people lie convincingly.

Then at least they had the decency to lie to us.

I don't understand the hire..

Hasn’t the whole Weis/Josn McDaniels/Michigan sequence proven that the OC that has Brady as QB is largely irrelevant? I don’t understand why the OC for Brady is pursued while no one can name Peyton Manning’s OC’s over the past 10 years.. I imagine its because the playcalling doesn’t matter if the QB is going to check to the right play anyway which could be stated for both.

If we are going do a bridge hire why not just give the job to Scrap or Larry Johnson Jr. Why not hire Schiano? I don’t see how this guy is going to recruit and I see the hire as a guy who is just looking for a raise over an NFL coordinator job.

dyehardfan - January 6, 2012 reply

I would Schiano right now. And frankly it pains me to say that.

Here's a thought

An NFL assistant might take a three year deal. Schiano wouldn’t leave for less than five. A guy like Petersen would want 10. I think the NFL assistant route might give us some more flexibility down the line.

I love your optimism. I wish I could be like that. Not trying to be an ass, i’m serious.

And frankly part of me feels bad that I am and so are most of us already writing this guy off.

I’m just so upset about the big wigs at the school handling everything in the past few months. This program has just been obliterated.

If the program is re-energized we are looking at revenue..

A flat hire could drop revenue by 20-30 million a year.. No offense but given the marginal cost of college athletes.. elite coaches are a steal. I don’t understand why go cheap?

dyehardfan - January 6, 2012 reply

The whole thing is bizzare.

He wants a NFL HC job, so I really don’t understand how this is a good fit…at all

Maybe he wants a good NFL job?

Jacksonville is a shitty job, nowhere near as good as Penn State, even now. Maybe his dream job is the Giants, or the Steelers, Cowboys or Patriots.

But that still doesn't explain how it's a good fit for us.

If he’s successful, he’ll be out like a thief in the night. If he isn’t, we’ll be in an even worse position to hire a “real coach,” than we are now.

If he’s successful, he’ll be out like a thief in the night.

Let’s worry about that when he’s successful. My concern is that he’ll suck, not that he’ll be good then leave.

My worries are both.

At least if he’s successful, we’ll still be able to hire someone worth a damn. Not so much if he is not.

Yes we will

Please. A handful of bad seasons isn’t going to turn us into Pitt. It just won’t.

It's hard for me to be confident of that...

Considering we just hire this guy.

Mike Shula

if Bama can turn around after him, there is no reason to believe that we would not be able to if BOB fails

I'd rather not wait

around for a decade or two to find out.

But where I am upset is that the HC job here is a final stop in one’s career. This shouldnt be a pit stop position. This position should be the ultimate job for just about any hire, especially a guy with lame credentials like BOB. This isn’t Arizona State or Texas Tech. This is Penn State. Whoever they hire should have the mindset that they want to reach 409 wins and coach for multiple decades; not stay a few years an win a job with the Steelers.

For some guys that would almost certainly be true

Some people just want to coach in the NFL. I’m not gonna be upset if he leaves, as long as he doesn’t do it like Graham (or Petrino did in ATL).

And I dont blame him if thats the case. But you cant help but think Joyner and the school would have an idea about that and hire someone truly dedicated. I mean for God’s sake he is gonna finish out the year with the Pats. Fuck that noise.

Maybe

Unless they thought that the only truly dedicated guys they could find were no good, or toxic because of ties to the program. I’d rather have 3-4 decent years and a responsible exit than someone who claims to want to be here forever but isn’t any good. Of course, what I’d really like is someone who is good and actually wants to be here forever. I honestly thought that could still happen. I guess I was wrong and I honestly don’t know what to think right now.

Joyner is an asshole

and I hope this is the last ridiculous act he does at this university.

I have no problem with finishing out the season with the Pats

just last week, everyone was saying that they would not want a coach with such lack of morals to leave their college and not finish out the season.

It's different if he's coming from the NFL as their season is much longer

that

and they are pro players, paid to be there. a college coach leaving screws kids that are there for him (ideally) a pro coach hurts players getting paid millions to be there. a bit different

willisJ - January 6, 2012 reply

totally agree

Don’t even get me started on how college coaches, who are infinitely more important than any single player can jump ship at any time without penalty (other than breaking their contract which will be covered by their new school) and disrupt an entire program, but there is rule after rule about how players can transfer.

You can’t compare NFL to NCAA. They’re both monsters, but totally different ones.

I understand why HE might take it

Not so much why PSU would want him.

Very much this.

Pitt Post Gazette just now claiming they have a source as well.

There’s at least a 50% chance they’re making it up to save face about being beat by an NFL reporter from ESPN, but then who cares.

Patriots offensive coordinator Bill O’Brien — a hard-nosed, old-school coach — interviewed for the Nittany Lions’ vacancy Thursday and later accepted the job, a source told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

And really my guess is more like 90%.

Any one of the Steeler beat guys could get Chris Mortenson on the phone.

Their source in all likelihood is the same source.

If they really did just interview him today

and make an offer, that is some pretty damn quick turn around. Assuming they actually did interview guys like Clements, they must have really seen something they liked in O’Brien to have acted so quick.

Mike Tomlin

If memory serves the steelers moved almost as quick with him after they interviewed him…

This guy must be one heck of a salesman to convince the last few people he has interviewed with

Essential in recruiting I might add

Psuprovejo - January 6, 2012 reply

Actual rule at our house.

Mike Tomlin is allowed to have sex with my Wife. I have some issues with his football coaching decisions, but if he is not the most charismatic human being in the world, I’m not sure who is.

I wouldn't say charismatic

I’d say commanding. Like you’d get up to leave the room and he’d put his hand on your shoulder, look you right in the eye, and say “jesse. I want you to stay, and watch me make love to your wife” AND YOU WOULD.

You have no idea,

Wife would just look at me and say, “we don’t have to get divorced, but this is happening”.

She wouldn't have to say it, jesse.

I think she already has.

I feel like he'd talk to you afterwards

and you’d not only have a stronger marriage, but you’d be more motivated in your career and other things as well.

That's the way I see it too.

I think it would be a net-positive.

There would really be no downside.

More than just accepting it if it were to happen, I think you should be soliciting this situation.

He'd probably give you tips in bed.

LOL

That’s probably like Jimi Hendrix giving you tips on how to play the guitar.

I imagine Tomlin's interview went something like this...

[Walks into Rooney’s office, shakes hand, shows respect]
Rooney: So…
Tomlin: Hire me.
Rooney: Yes. Damn you are one cool Mo’Fo.

I like to think he was wearing sunglasses the entire time

Cuz his future's so bright

Gotta wear shades

to protect your eyes from the swagger

He can really wear the shit out of a pair of aviators, I'll give him that.

No way they offered him the job with Russ out of the country

Unless the “old offer” for whoever just fell apart.

Yeah, anyway

What the hell is with that. How does Russ justify a vacation if the guy isn’t already in the bag??

I CAN'T STOP STARING AT THE CHIN

O'Brien's contract

3 years, $7.25/hr and a campus meal plan only good at Findlay.

You'd think they'd at least pony up and let him eat at the West Dining Hall.

Then again, Findlay had Roxy’s.

I used to get bacon cheeseburgers

from there every day for lunch freshman year. It’s a miracle that I didn’t weigh 500 lbs.

It's a miracle no one has heart attacks period.

Between the Burgers and the fries…

Is that Italian place still over in South?

Rigatoni’s, I think? Only open Tuesday and Thursday I think. That’s where I was Tuesday and Thursday.

There is an Italian place

But South is now more of a “food court” setup, with an Italian, Asian, Mexican, salad, grill, and sandwiches, all open every day. Of course, there’s still the regular buffet, but it’s in the corner.

Pollack to be exact not South

gopsu5121 - January 6, 2012 reply

I would probably give this guy a chance

if he brings the Chicken Cosmo back with him.

PSU_Buch - January 6, 2012 reply

And in OT news Barry Sanders Jr just committed to Stanford.

PSU gets recent commits: ham sandwich and Alan Wrench

what about Phillip Screwdriver?

nah he just changed his mind after this clusterfuck of a hire and decided to go to South Eastern Idaho Tech…they have a better program

Todd Blackledge

does not seem pleased

Cliffs notes?

ESPN right now

Fuck that

I’m watching “Get him to the Greek”.

ESPN might be less painful

I hated that movie.

I don't understand.

Not complicated.

I thought Get him to the Greek was awful.

I think I might rather watch ESPN then watch it again.

Really?

That’s one of the funniest movie’s I’ve seen in awhile. Also, the new Planet of the Apes movie was really good.

shrug I didn't like it

I only saw it once, so maybe it’s one of those movies that gets better with more viewings. Still, I didn’t care for it when I watched it.

The African Child..

video is fantastic. I thought I was going to hate that movie, but it is funny.

And Phillies, Flyers & Carolina Panthers?

What the fuck is that?

Grew up in Central PA

Follow the Flyers and Phillies religiously as a kid (thanks to my dad). I never really had an NFL team because my dad liked an out of market team. I ended up following the Panthers because of Kerry Collins (even if he didn’t work out there). He was drafted by them when i was 9 or so. I know it isn’t a great reason, but that’s all I can say.

And now you're forced to love Cam Newton.

Ehh.

They’re paying him is no longer a legitimate reason to dislike him. Other then the obvious cheating in college, I haven’t heard anybody say anything bad about him at all. Like ever.

I'll respond to Uhaul, Jesse. and Octa in one post

I really, really disliked Cam for the whole Auburn thing. I was not a fan of their drafting him. I also really didn’t think he would translate. So I was against drafting him. But boy was I wrong.

Now? Yeah I’m starting to like him. I think he’s a great QB. But I can certainly understand why people don’t like him.

He seems to really enjoy the fans.

So he’s turning me around.

I still worry that he cares too much about his ego

But His play his making that thouhgt go away.

He's an NFL quarterback

very few of them come off as genuinely humble.

no one has said anything bad about him?

Ask the student whose laptop he stole

ohhh man

think what you will about his “amateur” football career…

Cam Newton is an absolute BEAST on the field, and doesn’t seem to have as many off the field problems like about 1/4 of the NFL, including the QB of my team (who I love to watch) Big Ben. You take Cam Newton, and you like it (genuinely).

Oh, no question...he is an absolute beast.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

That and I can’t wait to see what Harrison and Polamlu do with Tebow. I’m legitimately looking forward to it.

I feel pretty bad for Tebow.

He is going to get absolutely crushed…frequently

We'll see.

Seneca Wallace lived through it.

The forward pass is not foreign to Seneca.

That's not how I remember it.

I meant in general.

Seneca is a far more accomplished passer than Tebow.

Any other team

It would really bother me with a starting safety forced to miss the game and the team’s best pass rusher banged up (Woodley). But with Tebow? Is he really going to exploit your weaknesses in the secondary or make you pay for your lack of quick pass rush?

I don't understand why teams would want to rush Tebow.

Give him all day to throw. Odds are still pretty good it’ll be a horrible pass.

In a word?

No.

Same shit, but in a playoff game.

No turnovers, no special team breakdowns, reasonable TD conversion rate in the red zone, Steelers in a walk. If they play like they did last week, it could be an adventure.

10 points is more than enough to secure the win.

We'll see.

If the Steelers show and play a sharp game, I’m not concerned. But that is no guarantee.

The Broncos have almost no chance with Tebow at QB.

He’s a walking, talking interception.

Just have a Jeffrey

Well past that.

I’m on to the furry wall. It’s what important things looked like in the 70’s.

psuprovejo or ayone else

can you source where LJ and Vandy said they would be willing to stay at PSU under a new staff? Iassume no one is hanging around the old thread.

Johnson states that if the situation is right

Rich scarella
Reading eagle
1/3/12 "PSU coaches ponder future "

Psuprovejo - January 6, 2012 reply

I am more dejected now than mad.

I’ve calmed down.

But I’m now wondering if I want to keep the season tickets that have been in my family for 40 years that I spent $2,000 to transfer into my name. Don’t know if it’s worth it anymore…but I don’t want to give them up now and wish I had them in 5 years when Golden comes back.

Keep em.

The players still deserve your support.

I have two sets

Cheaper ones, and the ones that have been in my family that are one tier higher. That’s why I’m conflicted, I’ll at least keep one set.

keep them...

you will only regret giving them up.

Yep.

You can always sell the season tickets to someone on ebay until you want them again.

I don't know if I'll be able to sell, that's the problem

but after a day of contemplation I will definitely keep them.

I'm more confused than anything.

It just doesn’t make much sense. Even if there other options were only Clements/Roman. Hell, at least Clements can say he helped develop a QB, what’s this guy have? He didn’t screw up Tom Brady?

Part of me wants to say"shit I'll take them"

I think that means you should keep them.

That is until we suck because Joyner de-emphasized football. Then sell them.

phanatic's phloozies - January 6, 2012 reply

Adrian Coxson

apparently looking to transfer to PSU after this hire. Didn’t the former staff (strange to say…) sour on him because of attitude or something? I guess this can be viewed as a positive but also makes you wonder if some grassroots recruiting has already taken place.

and it also makes you wonder

if some are seeing the change of coach as a possible change in values/emphasis/insert noun here. I mean, if we didn’t want him anymore because of attitude, I don’t know that I want him now…though of course he is older and could have changed. I just don’t want us to now go after the Terrelle Pryors of the world now that we have a new coach. I want us to stick with kids who want to get a degree and play some football.

hindsight is 20/20

but don’t kid yourself, we went after Pryor HARD

from what I've heard

once Joe met him, we stopped recruiting him hard

Coxon is also a guy who couldnt fit in at Florida and now apparently Maryland as well

He needs to go to Cal State (Pa).

ESPN...

It’s State College, not College Station.

yeah wtf?

Someone on ESPN just called State College

College Station. Fuck ESPN.

Well at least he corrected it

Fuck ESPN a little less

I'd rather fuck ESPN than a sheep.

The guy from Pittsburgh made it sound like the players are even more pissed off than we are.

That is a very real possibility.

You’d think someone would have the decency to tell them first.

Where have you seen professionalism on PSU's behalf in these last 3 months?

drockPSU - January 6, 2012 reply

From Bradley and the other coaches.

Good point. I meant from the administration.

drockPSU - January 6, 2012 reply

from their tweets

this couldn’t be more untrue.

I’ve seen nothing but positivity…but that may be just towards the media. Though, isn’t that what ESPN is? hrm…

I would hope they would be smart enough to put on a happy face even if they were not thrilled.

We should be too.

PaJoe - January 6, 2012 reply

Please stop referring to the coaching search as "methodical and deliberate."

They'll get 'em next time.

drockPSU - January 6, 2012 reply

I'm beginning to slow down and try to come to terms with this hire...

If they hire him on the 3rd and he starts recruiting immediately… I would be able to take this better.

As the days and weeks went by my expectations did fall from the big names to the middle teir guys, but Bill O’brien wasnt the guy out of the middle teir guys I wanted.

I wanted Clements or the guy from San Fran after researching them and learning some things about them. I knew O’Brien was in the running but he always seemed the least interesting of the three.

Now, I’ll try to take it easy until I find out what the rest of the staff is going to look like…. OH who the fuck am I kidding… I CANT BELIEVE HE’S NOT GOING TO COME HERE AND RECRUIT RIGHT AWAY!!! THIS GUY HAD TO KNOW WE WERE GOING TO BE ROUGH ON HIM… BUT TALK ABOUT STARTING OFF ON THE WRONG FOOT!!!!

GET YOUR ASS ON THE ROAD AND START RECRUITING!!!

Holy shit

Calm down people. He’s the OC for a professional football team that just so happens to have a decent shot at winning the Super Bowl. I think this is rather telling, as far as his whole “an NFL head coaching gig is my dream job” quotes. I’m not entirely sure of this, but my guess is that it would be frowned upon if you left a professional coaching gig in the middle of a playoff run in a multi-billion dollar league for a college head coaching job. If he truly wants to be a head coach in the NFL someday, he’s not going to do anything now to possibly tarnish his image or get in the way of that. I’m not saying we have to like it, but we have to deal with it cuz, zomg, it’s reality.

snydo5976 - January 6, 2012 reply

Um, he has a new job now.

One he’s not fucking doing until after recruiting is over.

You’re either in or you’re not. None of this halfway bullshit.

Exactly

FUck him if he doesn’t start recruiting right away.

MeetMeAtTheCorner - January 6, 2012 reply

lets all calm down

who did you want to see? vince lombardi? well hes no longer with us… I’ll take the offensive coordinator of the most potent offense in the NFL to coach a PSU team in offensive shambles. Maybe he’s not who everyone wanted to be named head coach but I’m willing to jump on board….WE ARE

one more thing

and you expect Bill O’Brien to be on the road recruiting today?? Maybe you forget that he is the offensive coordinator for the PATRIOTS. I think that they are in the playoffs and may be busy. There are things called responsibilities and obligations. The young-ins still in school may not understand this. When you sign a contract, you follow through. whether with the patriots or with PSU. Just the fact that we have signed someone to his caliper should be enticing to our recruits (hopefully).

MeetMeAtTheCorner - January 6, 2012 reply

Well then he's the wrong guy to hire for that reason alone.

Once you take a job to be the Head Coach at Penn State that should be your priority and y our commitment.

Already he is failing in his responsibilities and obligations to US.

I dont give a crap about his obligations to New England. I give a crap about his obligation to us by agreeing to be OUR HEAD COACH.

I agree he's the wrong guy

Blame the hire, but we certainly can’t blame him for staying on to fulfill his obligations with the Patriots.

snydo5976 - January 6, 2012 reply

We certainly can

I can’t take a new job and work at my old one until the time is right for me. I go start working when the company that hired me wants me to work. Simple really. The fact that this wouldn’t be a condition as part of the hire makes me really think that Joyner and company fucked this one.

You absolutely can

it happens every day.

New job “When can you start?”
Applicant “Well I’d have to give my current employer two weeks notice”

But now he has two signed contracts

If he’s committed to the Patriots and a Super Bowl run, then don’t take another job until after the Super Bowl.

I'm excited to see what he can do.

But I’d be excited to see what any new coach could do because like I’ve said many times I think this program’s stale.

I never heard of O’Brien until a few days ago. I know nothing of his qualifications other than what I’ve just read, and none of that is “sexy” or exciting. But I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and a fair chance. Best of luck to Bill O’Brien!

Yet I can’t hit “Post” with without first saying “WTF? This is your homerun in the bottom of the ninth Seems more like a late season call-up pinchhitter getting walked to me.”

Not to mention the leak of this story is terrible considering

None of the players know, and none of the current coaches know.

They should kill the deal just because of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiRqNbtZnno&sns=em

Agree 100%

Under other circumstances, I honestly wouldn’t mind this hire. The guy could feasibly become a phenomenal head coach. But once again allowing information to be leaked late at night? Not first calling the interim coach, who has put his heart and soul into PSU for about 35 years and is currently trying to salvage the recruiting class? Classless and ridiculous.

Even if Joyner fully intended on hiring O’Brien, the best option is to pull a reverse Les Miles and walk away. Can’t wait two months only to have the search end like this. Very, very poor form.

ruxin - January 6, 2012 reply

To use one of Spencer's lines

We have NFLAIDS. Not just HIV, but…

PSUPing - January 6, 2012 reply

Link fail

PSUPing - January 6, 2012 reply

Spencer's still comatose after Florida's season flatlined, no?

If the story is true.......Where are all the loyal penn staters?

1) Why all the hate? Give the guy a chance. You can’t compare him to Weiss (who went to a BCS bowl game if I am not mistaken) or McDaniels because he is not them, our team is not the teams they went to.
2) Did any of you honestly think the hire would be in house after all this mess? As much as Scrap or LJsr would be the sentimental choice, PSU can not have a HC with ties to the mess.
3) There wasn’t this much hate when DeChillis left for Navy, I repeat, a coach from our great university left on his own accord to go a step down (athletically speaking).

Notre Dame Parellels

Look at where we stand now, and look at Notre Dame the past 10 years. We’re headed down the same dark, dysfunctional road. A former heavy-weight program with all the money and fan support in the world and yet they may never get back to being relevant. It starts with head coaching hires, mismanagement from the administration, and delusional fans who think they’re just a tick away from being present-day Alabama.

I refuse to be Notre Dame fan 2.0, if this is our guy, fine. But don’t act all surprised when we can’t field a decent defense and wind up 5-7, 7-5, 6-6 over the next three seasons before canning this guy.

It may not make a difference who they hired.

In the short run, those records have a good chance of happening no matter who the coach is. Remember, there’s still no legit qb on this team. And any incoming hotshot freshman will either have to wait and/or have his growing pains.

You now have...

a better chance than ever to see Skylar M. as the starting QB. He has no loyalties to McGloin or Bolden.

While succeeding at qb as a freshman is almost impossible...

…it would be hard for him to do worse than McGloin and Bolden.

Barkley...

wasn’t horrible as a freshman. Hard to be great as freshman, but he can be good.

But look at the defense we've got coming back

And the two recruiting classes prior to last years. The cupboard is far from bare. Next year is going to be tough no matter what (unless PJ gets his grades in order) but it still could have been turned around in two years, easily.

Defense?

It loses its best player (Still) and another starting DE. It loses all 4 starters in the secondary (multiple year starters). That’s 6 out of 11 on a D that got torched against the only 2 good offenses it faced.

I’m not overly optimistic on the defense.

AND, if we lose LJ...

The usually one solid staple will suddenly become unstable.

We've got a lot of promise in the secondary

Amos and Morris both have plenty of game and/or starting experience

We also have Hill coming back

and several solid Dline prospects from past recruiting classes. I’m sure the D will take a hit, but with the right coach it shouldnt be that bad.

and Mauti's coming back.

welcome to 2000-2004

with joepa at the helm. Any time there are new hires, there is going to be a transition. People are assuming that this guy isn’t going to be able to do anything. I believe he’ll be around 5-6 years, by then hopefully all the other mess will start to be on the back burner, and then it might make this job more appealing to “a name”, if he in fact does a poor job. But until then, you should support the coach.

So what I'm hearing you say is

Muchak in 2016. Who knows, maybe he’ll feel seriously guilty watching the hopeless situation for a few years and come on board.

What I am saying is..

let the man prove himself before you turn your back. He’s not JoePa, and for PSU, that’s a tough thing to get use to. No one “of name” in their right mind would leave any current gig to have to deal with the scandal mess. Thats just reality. 5-6 years down the road if he is not successful, and all the mess starts to get further in the past, then this might be a more appealing job.

Exactly.

Give the man a chance before you crucify him and refuse to even type his name. He’s yet to do one bad thing at PSU.

except, you know, not actually show up for work during one of the most important times of the year

When is the "dead time" for recruiting?

Isn’t it now??

it ends soon

and recruiting is done Feb 1st or 2nd. When BOB is still going to be in NE coaching the Pats. Which means any incoming recruits or possible new recruits wont be able to sit down with the new head coach and hear what he has in store for the program. Which means we wont be having a good recruiting class this year.

Also

What about current players on the team? They deserve a head coach right away too. Or they should be given the opportunity to transfer. Quite frankly, I hope Bradley pulls a Lloyd Carr and says ’I’ll sign anyones transfer papers that would like them’

Its the right thing to do

how is that the right thing? If any of them want to transfer, they’d have to drop down to the delewares in order to play. Remember the “you play for the school, then the coach”

He’s not going to be completely off the radar, if he even sticks with the patriots once the hire is official. penn state does have a jet that I bet he’ll be using frequently

Opens back up on 1/13

although there are other recruiting geeks/lawya types who can provide a definitive what can/can’t you do right now.

Ok, so then he couldn't recruit even if he was in SC right now.

I didn't expect him to recruit TODAY

however, some time spent on this in January other than making a call while eating a sandwich at lunch might help.

Our apparently soon to be relieved coaches

were out visiting commits yesterday.

Weis

got to the BCS because of Whittingham’s recruits. Once Brady Quinn and Samardjida were gone he fell flat on his face.

nits4ever - January 6, 2012 reply

And we don't have a Brady Quinn on our roster

using that logic then means it was not rich rods fault michigan sucked his first year, “they were lloyd carr’s players”

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKkk

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What about his thin, and undistinguished resume makes this guy the next head coach at PSU?

What a fucking disaster.

No, it's a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth.

My initial reaction is not one of joy either, but I’m willing to give the guy a chance and hoping hard that he’s successful.

Oh, I hope he's successful too.

I just don’t feel like wasting my time, money, and energy to find out.

Of all of the football people in the world – college & pro – this dude is THE BEST we could do? Bullshit.

Who else was it going to be that would make a splash?

No current head coach in the NFL was ever gonna come here, nor was Nick Saban or anyone like that.

Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, Bill Parcells, etc….people were insane to think any of them were ever gonna come here.

Chris Petersen never did it for me either. I’m not overly impressed with Boise…I feel they’re a product of their schedule. His predecessor did very well there too and then fell flat on his face at Colorado.

Clements might have been a better hire (never know though), but he’s not exactly a household name either.

I would have preferred NOT hiring an NFL coach

Sure, some recruits might be excited about “NFL connections”, but NFL coaches tend to have a poor track record in the college ranks (buying players at USC not withstanding).

No coordinator from a major program wanted a shot at their own HC job? Chryst at Wisconsin comes to mind. Oh, wait. Pitt hired him. Charlie Strong, another (I get he’s loyal to Lville). I was fine with the Mullen rumors.

Anything but an NFL coach using this as a temporary gig until he can coach the Jaguars or some shit like that.

Most people never heard of Chryst before Pitt hired him.

Chryst, Strong, Mullen….those are not name hires either.

yeah but

They have experience coaching college kids, recruiting, and working for a university. I’m not sure where this guy came from before the Pats, but I doubt he has anywhere close to the experience those guys do.

Read his qualifications.

I didn’t know either…I had to read it. He has plenty of college experience…17 years, I believe it was.

And how did that

Duke job work out for him?

If we want someone who will:
1. work cheap
2. not have a winning resume in college

they could have hired me for like $200,000.

According to the kid he coached at his position it was great.

Mr. O’Brien later moved to Duke, where he was offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach in ‘05-’06. The Blue Devils were 1-22 during his two seasons, but he was instrumental in helping Mr. Lewis develop into a two-time, second-team All-Atlantic Coast Conference pick.

“He certainly helped me out a lot,” Mr. Lewis said. “I was a freshman starting for him, but once he allowed me to open up the offense and do some things, we were very, very successful. He demanded perfection from us quarterbacks and he’s doing the same thing with Tom Brady now.”

Sweet

2nd team All-ACC.

So, he has that going for him, you know, which is nice.

I’m sure he’s a wonderful person. But there are lots and lots of wonderful people out there the search committee could have and should have hired.

I'm not trying to cheerlead for the guy.

Honestly…I’m underwhelmed to say the least by this hire. All I’m asking though, is that we give him a chance.

And a fair chance. Keep in mind that whoever they hired was walking into a program that does not have a legit D1 qb on its roster. That’s a HUGE hurdle to overcome for anyone.

Duke!

He was the OC there in 05 & 06. The Blue Devils won 1 game in those 2 years combined. Offense ranked in the bottom 15 of 1-A/FBS schools each season.

Yes it’s Duke-but a great coach (Spurrier) can get them to a bowl game. An average staff gets them to 3 or 4 wins a season.

nits4ever - January 6, 2012 reply

How did GT do when he was OC there?

I think whatever wins they did have

were vacated anyway due to an academic scandal.

They're "name"

hires to people who follow college football. I don’t care what ESPN or the lady who sits next to me at work thinks about all of this.

Like I said, I really didn’t want an NFL hire.

I never heard of Paul Chryst until he surfaced as a candidate at Pitt.

I follow college football.

You need to brush up on your Sun Tzu, good sir!

know your enemies.

Here's a fun game we can play;

Until this guy wins a B1G championship, I refuse to type his name. I’ll refer to him as “that guy” or “brah” or maybe “the chin”. I may never have to type his name! Truth is I’m not even exactly sure I know it without double checking it!

On another, more positive note, if LJ Sr and Vanderlin are let go — then I’ll actually get serious about being mad. If they are retained there is still a glimmer of hope in my mind.

C'mon man - give the guy a chance!

I’m not thrilled either, but he’s my favorite team’s coach now and I wish him nothing but the best.

Like I said

If the announcement is “this guy is HC, LJ and Vanderline are retained and will run the defense while also continuing to recruit through the winter” well then maybe I can get on board for a season or two. But God help me if they clean house and think they’ll find better defensive coordinators somewhere else, because they won’t.

This is what I wonder about

what’s the message to recruits over the next month if he brings an entirely new staff on board, particularly since they’re doing ALL of the recruiting?

“Hey, HS All American. I’ve only set foot in State College once, but I think you should come to school here because…. well, I’m not sure why. Um, my boss knows Tom Brady?”

Yeah but this was going to be the situation no matter who they hired.

Unless it was Bradley, which it never was gonna be and we should be glad it isn’t. Every school that fires coaches goes through the same thing recruiting-wise.

This is where we differ greatly

I not “glad” to see Bradley go. I knew he wasn’t getting the job, but if this scandal didn’t occur, I would have been fine with him taking over, provided he brought in a new OC.

Disagree

a coach who actually came to State College during this period and went recruiting and hired a staff might be able to convince some of the kids to stay if they had any doubts. Someone who actually had a connection to PSU could have allayed any fears that the PSU culture would change. Someone who actually gave a shit about the job he was walking into would be able to do something. I dont think this guy gives a shit.

Same thing Weis told kids

I coached Tom Brady, you could be the next Tom Brady if you stick with me.

Obviously this message doesn’t carry a whole lot of weight for a defensive player which is why, among other reasons, Weis couldn’t field a decent defense in his tenure at ND.

I'll add this as well

Until he produces at least 3 Academic All-Americans I will also refuse to type his name.

My wife who has not followed this coaching process at all said it very simply when I told her this this morning “He is the buffer hire.” And I kinda figured this would be the case deep down when the search took this long and so few exciting names came out.

Two months for this…and to boot, he will not be taking over full time until the Pats season ends??? Joyner, you f’d this one up bad.

CJPhilly - January 6, 2012 reply

This sucks beyond words

Just the worst possible outcome.

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

This is what i get to wake up to?

irz813 - January 6, 2012 reply

For all its glory

irz813 - January 6, 2012 reply

Nice find!

Here's my litmus test:

does your hire bring laughter and scorn from fans of other teams? You maybe didn’t make the best hire.

I’ll be interested in seeing what folks from other schools have to say about this one. Not that their opinion overly concerns me, but it’s interesting to see someone’s opinion who is detached from the situation.

For one, EDSBS tweeted a chart of the grief cycle, so that’s probably a positive vote, right?

Right

There wasn’t one person in the room who said, “are we sure this is the best that we can do?” If not, then the group wasn’t big enough.

If Boston College hired him,

I would laugh hysterically at them. Boston freaking College. Where does that leave us?

Yeah...

I can hear other college football fans laughing hysterically…

06Lion - January 6, 2012 reply

And we officially have become the next notre dame

You win BOT, you win.

ReddWhitenBlue - January 6, 2012 reply

BoB...

Here’s how I will judge him: First, there cannot be any kind of NCAA violations on his watch (other than those stupid secondary ones like putting cream cheese out with the bagels at the training table). Second, Paterno didn’t lose to Temple or Indiana. The seat gets real hot if he loses to either. Third, he gets two chances to beat Ohio St. before the seat gets scorching hot. Fourth, the offense has to get better without a major drop off on the defensive side of the ball. Fifth, and this should be higher, but I’m lazy, he has to embrace the tradition of PSU football and that includes Paterno. Brandon Short has already stated that many a former player are pissed at Joyner and how he has interracted with them. BoB needs make sure they are welcomed. Sixth, he was four years to get to a Rose Bowl.

I agree definitely with 4 and 5.

But my main judgment will be how he does with his own recruits. So to me year 4 is critical.

except we already have a solid team

and some talented recruits (if he can keep them). If he cant win with what is on the roster, then he was a poor hire. Brady Hoke managed to get to the BCS with RichRods classes. The cupboard is pretty stocked right now. He just needs to sort out the QB situation and maintain the defense. I’ll give him 1 grace year, but after that I better see him meeting expectations.

There are issues with this team.

The biggest one is at qb, where there essentially isn’t a legit D1 qb.

The o-line has issues…always does.

The d-line loses the team’s best player and another starter.

The secondary loses 4 multi-year starters.

Running back depth is almost non-existent. Redd is a stud, but if he gets hurt it’s BIG trouble.

Linebackers position is fine….strong.

Receivers are solid. Nothing great, but solid.

Special teams are fine.

The cupboard is not bare, but it is far from being well stocked with quality goods. And not having a quality qb is an absolute KILLER.

Well we managed to win 9 games with those issues

I expect at least 7 next year.

Huh?

Those are the issues the team is facing for next year. They didn’t come into this year with those issues, other than qb and o-line.

Tell me the signature win out of those 9. And remind me how the awesome defense did against the only 2 good offenses it faced (Wisky and Houston). I don’t expect shutdowns and shutouts against good offenses, but I do expect a supposedly great defense to do better than PSU’s did against those teams.

Should have said "some of those issues"

but still. He needs to get at least 7 wins with what he’s got. And I expect to see many of the things Esteban said.

One grace year.

So that means you’re expecting big things from the sophomores from what would be his first recruiting class. That would be this year’s class, which right now is not at all his and any he gets will essentially be leftovers.

This is why I said 4 years. Give him time to coach his recruits and time for those recruits to be upperclassmen. Very few teams succeed with mostly first and second year players as starters.

you know what

why the fuck is everyone giving him a free pass already? He should be able to come in and win. None of this, “oh he needs his players” bullshit. If LJ or Scrap had been the next HC, no one would have batted an eye with these sorts of demands, and if they didnt meet them then people would be calling for his head, and I bet in less time than 4 years. Fuck that. To give a Tomlin-esque quote “The expectation is the expectation”. If he cant hack it then he shouldnt be the coach.

That's how you become Notre Dame.

The only thing that will absolutely guarantee you failure is switching coaches every few years. You have to have some sort of stability if you’re going to be successful, which is why we need to be patient with a new coach.

But will this

guy stick around long enough if the NFL comes calling again or if the heat gets turned up because he doesn’t win in years 1 or 2?

We’ll see.

That's the biggest issue I have with this guy.

He’s not going to be around for very long, regardless of whether or not he’s successful. But skarocksoi was speaking in generalities, so I answered in generalities. You can’t just fire a guy after one or two seasons because he didn’t meet your expectations, because it’s virtually impossible to build success that way.

I generally agreee...

but if he goes 2-10, he should be fired.

Well that's not going to happen,

so I wouldn’t really worry about that.

True and I agree...

but guys like Stoops, Tressel, Kelly, Saban, Miles, Urbz all played for mNC’s within their first 3 years on the job. The standard is high, as it should be. I’m not a low expectation having mofo.

The standard is absolutely high,

but skarocksoi was talking like unless we make a serious run at the B1G championship next year, he should be canned. 3-4 years is plenty of time for a new coach to establish his system and develop a team to execute it effectively.

If we’re still having 6-8 win seasons after 3 years, then maybe it’s time to start looking elsewhere during the 4th.

its true

I’m venting right now. Its probably best to ignore me. But I’m fucking pissed with everything about this. From top to bottom. I really hope this just isnt true and I just end up looking like a giant asshole. Or that this guy is actually really awesome and I look like a giant asshole. Whatever.

FWIW, I think you're right to be angry about the hire.

It was probably handled poorly from Day 1 and we probably ended up with a weasel. But if there’s anything I’ve learned since November, it’s to reserve judgement until the facts come out.

This is just months of built up frustration

and the hope that it would all be aleviated with a good coaching hire. I’ve probably been more patient with this than anything else as this stupid search plodded along and Penn State had its name dragged through the mud day in and day out. I probably hit cancel on a number of angry posts just so cooler heads could prevail. And this is my reward. This is what I get. We’ve been kicked in the collective nuts repeatedly for the past couple months, and now I’m getting pissed about it.

We already are Notre Dame

we just eschewed a fantastic tradition and hired a Belicheck lackey. Exactly like Notre Dame. We werent going through troubled times on the football field (notice “on the field”). We were just a solid coach and recruiter away from being a real powerhouse. And now were in the “well lets give him a couple years to get his guys in there before we judge him on winning” mindset. I think everyone should be fucking pissed about this.

Not yet we're not.

We’ll only be Notre Dame if we fire this guy after a couple 6-6 seasons, showing the world that unless you can win big right away, you’re going to be tossed out of town. That works in the NFL, but not in college.

He doesnt need to win an MNC in his second year

but I need to see a good team. Because we have a good team. 9 wins. That should be the standard. Thats what the last coaching staff averaged. If he can’t get 9 wins or close to it in his second season, he’s on the hot seat and out the door if things are looking bad in season 3. Of course, if he gets 9 wins he might be gone anyways for the Browns or Cheifs or whatever NFL job opens up.

I think you're overstating what we have on the roster.

We have a team that loses 4 starting OL, an All-American DT, starting DE, our best (albeit injury-bugged) LB, our 2 best FB, both starting S and a starting CB. 2012 Penn State is going to be an entirely different team than the one that managed to scrape up 9 wins last year, and more closely resemble the one that won 7 games in 2010. That was going to be the case even if IT had never happened and Joe was still the coach.

Exactly.

This team, no matter who coaches it, is at least 2 years away from being any kind of serious contender.

I totally agree.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2011/12/26/2662688/if-you-are-disappointed-with-the-bot

If news of this hire is accurate...

…and you’re disappointed by it , please click here and join (if you haven’t already done so, that is)

eternalpessimist - January 6, 2012 reply

Can't wait until he moves to State College...

I’m gonna take a nice steaming dump on his front porch, Joyner’s too since he ****ed this one up.

Wait, this hire wasn't a beer-induced fever dream of mine?

Yikes. I still can’t believe this is the guy Joyner’s chose to hang his hat on. I’ll give him a chance, because there’s no other choice, but I’m not optimistic. I hope to hell I’m wrong, but I just don’t see this ending well.

I'm OK with O'Brien because . . .

. . . Anybody who gets in Tom Brady’s face is OK with me. For a more measured look at O’Brien check out his press conference video on Patriots website. Let’s remember, he is an OFFENSIVE coordinator and not 85 years old . . .

WestHalls68 - January 6, 2012 reply

I'm looking forward to...

his post-game presser after home loss to Indiana on November 17 when O’Brien loses his cool and says “Joe Paterno is not walking through that door, okay fans. Kerry Collins is not walking through that door. Lavar Arrington is not walking through that door. And if they did, they’d be grey and old”

Judge Smailes - January 6, 2012 reply

Vote out the BOT but

with this kind of venom from the fans why would anyone you’re talking about want to come hear. They could be the next one to be blessed with your flaming comments.

It’s done. It should have been a PSU guy but it’s not. Time to get onboard with OUR coach and move beyond the scandal. Maybe there were better canidates (in your eyes) but this is now OUR guy. Time to support him and the program.

My biggest gripe is the decsions to allow him to finsh out the year in New England while our recruiting class withers and dies.

Bill O’brien is OUR coach. Enough whining. Today is the start of a new era where Jerry is no longer part of the discussion.

No

BOB is Joyners coach. He’ll be my coach when he shows he can embrace the Penn State ideals I’ve come to love and expect from my team.

Ideals that you came to Love

That didn’t happen overnight for you or any of the rest of us. Chill out and give the guy a chance.

If tomorrow he’s talking about names on the jerseys and carbon fibre helmets then I’ll be right there with you on the steps of Old Main asking for the heads of Joyner and BOB.

See FB6244's comments below

My issue isn’t with the guy himself, its the hire Joyner made. He might be awesome. I’ll readily admit I’m wrong and an asshole if he’s the coach we always wanted. But I dont have to like any of this or the way it was handled. Its all bullshit.

I don't have any faith

that a coach hired by Joyner will have any of the same ideals I do.

Another thought

Is there any chance the info was leaked to gauge public reaction? Maybe the admin can pull an ASU/June Jones thing here….

But...

Wouldn’t that involve giving credit to Joyner and the search committee?

One thought

It would be a great (although incredibly dickish) move by Joyner if he let this leak if it wasnt true, simply because after this, PSU fans would be welcoming of just about any other coach they did hire. Schiano or Golden would look like absolute saviors if they rode in now.

I thought Golden and Schiano both said "no" to PSU?

What was the BoT to do….coachnap them?

Who knows what they did

we havent had a solid report yet. Hell, this report isnt even solid. They could have wanted more money and Joyner didnt want to pay. Or maybe something else, if they were ever even asked. This is part of the reason why people are pissed. Joyner had his secret fucking hush hush search, and all we end up with is this bullshit with no knowledge of what went on. I’m sure if people knew this is all we could really get, they might not be pissed, but we dont, so Im fucking furious.

I dont get the negative reaction

He’s got enough college experience that he’s not going into this blind. People talk about Charlie Weis, that fat turd had never spend 1 day as a college coach. He didn’t have a clue about recruiting or teaching. This guy’s been at GT, Maryland, Duke, he knows what to expect.

And I’m sorry, but when did spending 5 years working under Bill Bellicheck become a bad thing? He’s seen how he motivates people, how he puts people in situations where they can succeed.

While not an unbelievable OMG can’t miss hire, I think he’s damn good. And if he’s smart enough to keep Larry Sr and Ron Vanderline then he’s possibly great.

I have 3 questions / concerns that will hopefully be answered very soon.

First, will he continue the tradition of strong defense at Penn State? I’m all for improving the offense, but not if he pulls a RichRod and lets the defense go to hell.

Second, will some of the people we consider “Penn State family” be on staff? I believe in the Penn State family concept, and a total house cleaning will not endear me to the new guy. It also ties in to #1 above to a large extent (Hint, hint: LJ and Vandy).

Finally, can and will this guy recruit? I frankly want to hear more about his recruiting intentions than I do about any NFL X’s and O’s.

I’m anxious to find out the answer to those questions. Hopefully I can be optimistic and get behind O’Brien as this becomes more clear.

Part of the problem is we've only ever hired Penn State Men

We need some outside blood, place had become too insular and buddy buddy, thats what got us into this f’in mess. Although I do want LJ Sr and Vandy to stay, which I’m reading they might.

I don’t care about this years recruiting class, it is what it is and no one was coming in last minute and suddenly lining up major recruits. Long term he can use his time with the Patriots as a recruiting tool.

But by doing that

we become just another school. Thats all we are now. Nothing special about penn State football anymore. Thats why people like Lavar are pissed.

Huh?

Because you can’t care about academics and doing things the right way unless you went to PSU? Hate to break it to you, but PSU isn’t that special. He worked at Duke and GT, both places that have better academics than us.

He can’t move to State College and then fall in love with the area and the people? That was a pre-existing job requirement?

PSU is special

any Penn State fan would realize that by now. And because he worked at GT and Duke he cares about his players graduating? Thats probably why during his tenure at GT they had an NCAA scandal where several players werent making any progress toward graduating.

But anyway, Penn State has a very specific culture, a culture that the next head coach needs to understand and embrace. That doesnt mean he has to be a PSU alum or whatever, but he has to embrace it. Otherwise we are just like GT and Duke and every other school out there. Thats what I dont want. I want to have that same feeling inside every time I make that drive to Penn State; that feeling like I’m going home to visit with my family, not just watch another football game.

Of course PSU is special.

How else do you have a staff where it’s the norm to stick around for 20 years? Why do you think the shit hit the fan in such a ridiculously spectacular fashion? Why do you think everyone in the world jumped all over Joe Paterno at the first sign of opportunity? They could never find anything to hate us for, so they hated us for it.

You think that if the exact same thing happened at any other school, the story would be nearly as big? Of course not. This was the single biggest sports story of 2011 because Penn State was the pinnacle of what a collegiate athletic department was supposed to be, and all of a sudden it came crashing down. It sucks writing this, but “the bigger they are, the harder they fall” proves exactly how special PSU is.

Wow. Good post.

“They could never find anything to hate us for, so they hated us for it.”

That’s it!! You’ve nailed it. I never could put my finger on why all the hate for PSU, but you’ve solved it for me.

I wish I could give credit where it's due.

Someone else said it somewhere, and I had your exact reaction. I have no idea who or when it was though.

I want to be different

I want to be Penn State and do things differently, do them the hard way. I don’t want someone to come in a fuck that up.

And that's not what I said, either.

I didn’t say ONLY hire Penn State people. But I dislike the idea of a total shut out of Penn State people.

And as for recruiting, I want to hear his ongoing long-term approach to recruiting, not necessarily what he’ll do this year.

In the past we complained about the nepotism and the PSU hires

in other sports. Now we hire someone without a connection and the interent melts down.

Personally

I’m not upset that he doesn’t have PSU ties. I’m upset that it took 50+ days to hire a candidate that most people had never even heard of until a few days ago. I’m upset that this guy’s stated preference is to coach in the NFL and that Joyner still thought he was a good candidate. I’m upset that the players and staff found out from ESPN and not Joyner. Basically, I’m upset by how this whole fucking mess was handled.

re:I’m upset by how this whole fucking mess was handled

I’m not in the business of defending anyone at the University right now, but it was/is a mess. Messes are ugly, cleaning up messes is messy and not pretty.

At the end of the day I’d rather have a good coach today (time will tell) than a bad coach 3 weeks ago.

No this is some legit criticism.

Rip the process, not the guy they hired. And let’s be reasonable in our expectations. PSU hasn’t won a NC in 25 years….why should we reasonably expect one within the next couple??

Let’s give this guy a chance. One star recruits get a better welcome on here than this guy’s getting.

Not everyone was complaining about nepotism

And they didnt need a direct connection, just an understanding of Penn State culture and a willingness to embrace it. Time will tell if BOB can do that.

Again, huh?

“just an understanding of Penn State culture and a willingness to embrace it”

And Obrien fails this requirement because?

Let the guy work before judging him. This isn’t like Callahan at Nebraska coming in and saying “I’m changing everything get out of my way.” The guy hasn’t even been introduced yet, let him speak.

He doesnt fail it yet

again, I’m just pissed at the whole process. And the final result. He might be a super swell guy. I have yet to see anything in his track record that proves that though. I hope he comes out and proves me wrong. I really do.

I think we all feel that way.

It’s how this process has unfolded that is most perplexing. I hope he proves me wrong, but if he does, I think he will bolt for the NFL.

That's not true.

Who complained about Sanderson or Chambers? Both had no PSU ties, but both kept some Penn State people on staff. Both have done well so far. Same thing with Coquese, too.

My hope that O’Brien keeps a current staff member or two is exactly consistent with what those other outside coaches have done.

I think it's too early to judge the Chambers hiring.

He is a fairly remarkable individual, but I am not quite sure he’s the savior many anointed him.

If they can play like they did last night more often,

he very well might be.

But so far he seems to get what PSU is about

in fact, that seemed pretty clear not too long after he was announced as the next HC.

Correct.

Everything sure looks to be good and right about him, but let’s give it some time. Everybody knew this year was a lost one, but let’s see how the program is in about 3 or 4 years from now. All signs point upward, but you never know.

Elaborate...

All signs point upward

Although the wins aren't pouring in,

Chambers seems to be doing a great job of tearing a team down and building it back up. The shooting is atrocious, yes, but other than that this team is playing pretty well considering everything else. They’re hustling. They’re playing tough defense. They’re rebounding like crazy. There’s a family atmosphere about them. All this after Chambers came in and installed a completely different schematic philosophy than DeChellis.

Plus, last night was a HUGE win. No one honestly expected Penn State to even be competitive with Purdue, let alone win.

Please reference dbl5030's post above.

Sorry, misread the thread.

Completely understandable.

True, but I've personally never anointed him as a savior.

I’m just happy with the effort on the floor. Let’s see how he recruits and what adjustments he can make when he has his personnel on the floor. However, there’s certainly reason to be optimistic.

I was pretty (ok, extremely) pissed when I saw this break on ESPN last night

But if we’ve learned anything from the Sandusky travesty, it’s let this play out and hear what happened. Bill O’Brien was obviously not the main target of this search for the past several months. They obviously had bigger fish in mind.

Maybe Munchak really fucked them over by saying no. Maybe he gave them every indication he would say yes. Maybe Petersen and Richt lead them on too, and we got caught in a position where tier- 1 candidates were using us for leverage against their own employers for a raise. Maybe the SF guy and GB guys blew chunks in their interviews.

There’s a good chance all the other mid-tier D1 coaches that we’ve described really were options, but we got greedy chasing Petersen/Munchak and they fucked us over when they flipped their interest. Once you’ve said no to a leader like Schiano or Mullen, you can’t exactly come back later and go “oh, wait, we meant yes.” You get the on finger salute, or an “excellent! my price just doubled” response.

I’m currently on the “they had their man….and then their man bailed” bandwagon.

Also, lay off O’Brien until he ices his own kicker or something. The dude is walking into a shit storm.

And...

O’Brien chewed out Queen Brady like he’s still a rookie. I dig that.

In Brady's pretty face . . .

. . . That’s a good thing. Imagine what he may have done with the current QB’s! ! !

WestHalls68 - January 6, 2012 reply

because Im sure

a coach going all Brian Kelly in Rob Bolden’s face would have really helped things out.

Absolutely NOT but . . .

Bolden needs shook up big time. As said earlier, for a more measured look at the man, check out O’Brien’s press conference video on the Patriots website. . .

WestHalls68 - January 6, 2012 reply

Measured responses are not in vogue today.

Too much emotion.

First,

what about any of the QBs on our roster makes you think they can handle running the Belichick offense? Two, have you watched Bolden. If someone gets in his face, his arms, legs, and head may literally retract into his body.

With the ball sailing into the third row of the stands.

I can’t get over his first pass in the TicketCity Bowl. At that moment, the game was over.

Not what I meant

Yelling at everyone as a coaching tool sometimes works, but Brian Kelly style isn’t what we’re shooting for.

I meant that when Tom Brady clearly told him to fuck off, he went ape shit like a grown man and a coach should. If he was the real patsy that some people say he is (“he’s not in the room with BB and TB when they game plan”) then he would have taken that lying down.

I’ve commented on the plodding nature of our offense in other threads. Have you guys ever seen tape of our practices? Have you seen tape of Florida’s practices? It’s night and day in terms of intensity. Some fire, and an obvious healthy sense of self confidence even in the face of an all-time great NFL QB, is a good thing.

I have been to Alabama, Florida, Georgia, USC, Clemson,Duke, and Georgia Southern practices in addition to PSU practice

I can tell you that there are some notable differences, but I will also say that the perfection demanded of the PSU players was at a MUCH higher level than anywhere else save Alabama. (Which IMHO is the model for a program RIGHT now.)

Good to hear.

Imagine if he gets in McGloin's face.

Mr. Moxie will get all fired up back at him, run his mouth, and may end up with another concussion.

Dudes named Bill I'd be more satisfied with as our next football coach:

Innovative thinker

Keeps the older fans happy

Sure to follow NCAA rules & regulations

Christ, why NOT Bill Bellamy?

Check his work in Weird Science to see him as an authority figure

How bout a nice greasy pork sandwich, served in a dirty ashtray?

jtothep - January 6, 2012 reply

Without having read any comments yet, I just thought you all should know.

#PSUinBOSStonSuicideWatch

I'm in Cambridge, if you need beer to make you feel better, let me know

psualum9931 - January 6, 2012 reply

I'm in Somerville

People here dont care about college football. I’ve slowly started wearing my PSU gear again.

Whereabouts?

Spent quite a few good years on Highland St.

I'm in Belmont.

I never stopped wearing my PSU gear, and the only comment I’ve ever received was a, “Oh that sucks whats happening right now”.

Right there

Just down from RedBones BBQ. Spent a year right in Harvard Sq too.

Oh what I would give

to be able to flee and go to underbones and drown my sorrows right now.

When I couldn’t get BTN (when it first came out), the bartender at the J Tree used to save me the best seat at the bar (even the primetime Illinois game). Literally threw two towels over the seats saving them for over an hour (an extra in case I brought a friend) during pretty prime hours. Shut off the music for the first half from 8-930 and put the sound for the game on. There were some not happy other patrons. I always made it worth the effort thought.

There's quite a few sports fans in the lab I work at

and none have anything nice to say about PSU, so it sucks for me, though they generally don’t bring it up.

psualum9931 - January 6, 2012 reply

I have since moved out of the city.

I now live ~4miles from the stadium. At least it gives me a unique perspective here. Various neighbors work for the team in the business office, coaching staff, and playing capacities. The bad news is the only thing I’ve ever heard is that BB and TB are the only ones with input into the offense.

I told my wife this morning that they chose one of the worst candidates

and her reaction was “yeah, well who would want that job. They don’t want their image tarnished.” I’m guessing this is going to be the national reaction, and I think it’s probably more real to good candidates than I was willing to believe.

psualum9931 - January 6, 2012 reply

LaVar and Brandon tell us how they really feel.

Arrington:

“I will put my Butkus (Award) in storage. I will put my Alamo Bowl MVP trophy in storage,” Arrington said. “Jerseys, anything Penn State, in storage. Wherever Tom Bradley goes, that’s the school I will start to put memorabilia up in my home. I’m done. I’m done with Penn State. If they’re done with us, I’m done with them.”

Short:

“I don’t want to be affiliated with the university if they don’t choose a Penn State guy because of our standards, our graduation, all the things that have been important… it’s no longer Penn State, so we might as well be in the SEC. They are intent on turning it into a booster culture. Ira Lubert went out and purchased a national title with wrestling and he’s under the illusion that he can do that in football. Well, ask (Redskins owner) Dan Snyder about that.”

“Penn State is a family and it is real and if they choose to get rid of Bradley and not hire a Penn State coach, then they’ve turned their backs on our entire family.”

So it was Bradley or nothing for them.

What can you do? It was never gonna be Bradley after the media distorted the scandal and gave the public the impression that everyone associated with PSU football was pro-pedophilia.

How many times has BRadley been asked about what he knew

recently? You really think that would have flared up again with him next year? Bradley wasn’t a candidate because the people in charge have no balls, no backbones, and no respect from me.

And THAT.....

I blame on the entire Administration……their weakness from the very start, their back-pedalling from the very start, the poor handling of dedicated and good FB coaches( Joe and the Staff) was terrible especially from the PR standpoint. But it just doesn’t matter anymore….they did what they wanted to do and alumni, friends and benefactors be damned.

Oh, I agree.

But like most people and things in life, they were led by their pocketbook instead of their consciences.

If most of our fanbase still thinks

that this was “the media distorting the scandal”, then we deserve the disaster that’s coming.

Seriously, people. Grow up.

Thanks for stopping by.

"Most of our fanbase"

followed by

Seriously, people. Grow up.

Your ability to combine gross generalization and condescension is particularly well adapted for the internet.

The idea that this board is most of our fan base is as absurd as anything else he's ever written

Lavar is a blowhard

He’s a loudmouth more interested in getting listeners for his sorry radio show than anything else.

I love Scrap, but he couldnt be the next head coach, just couldn’t. He was too close to everyone involved.

If LJ and Vandy are retained, as has been reported.

Then that argument goes to shit.

Why?

They had very little, if any, coaching time with Sandusky. Bradley was coached by him and essentially was his protege. Not saying Bradley knew how f**ked up JS was…I don’t think he did…but he is far more guilty by association than LJ or Vandy.

They were there during the incident.

And after when Sandusky was still seen around. That is the only time someone can be implicated. Having them stay is exactly the same as having Scrap stay.

It's not exactly the same.

TB was there for EVERYTHING and knew JS quite well. The others had nowhere near that kind of relationship with him.

They are not immune to the guilt by association, but it’s nowhere near the degree it could be made out to be with TB.

Agree with all that

And we aren’t saying Bradley knew anything, not at all. He was just too close to everyone involved. And since he was now the interim coach he’s too much of public figure during this mess.

Its not fair at all, but this whole clusterF isn’t fair.

If he was too close to keep long term

why did they give him the vote of confidence to be IHC?

Bradely would have been fine long term

the media wouldn’t have kept bringing it up, because they stopped now. It is just an excuse that people are latching on to.

Exactly

The MSM has actually been rather kind to Bradely the last month, some even expressing hope that he will be treated as a candidate with a fair shot

This.

And save us the exceptional surprise. Like you said, writing was on the wall with Bradley, who we all like and respect.

I am glad some people still have guts

and the ones who don’t, proudly proclaim their absence.

Look EVERYBODY!!!!

I have said at least a half-dozen times since last evening, it just doesn’t matter anymore who PSU hires. This job is now a jumping off job….these guys won’t stay long anymore…it’s the 4-5 years of leaving for a better job or getting shit-canned….DisJoyner and his cohorts got this wrong from the start. If he indeed wanted nobody that had ties to PSU, then he wouldn’t have accepted his job…the fact that O’Brien will still be coaching the PATS and will not be able to put his effort into recruiting and hiring a staff, is really unbelievable….but then looking at who is running the asylum, it’s not hard to comprehend. Settle down and sit back…hell he might leave for the “Pros” within the next year and we will be in sPitt’s situation ala hiring HCs every 13 months….start drinking liberally, my friends….Oh and good seats will and are available for all home games this year.

But that's true all over college football.

The days of the long reigns of coaches is over (sans Beamer).

Well....

obviously there will never be any 61 year terms in college FB, let alone a HC of 46 years….the point Breezy is that this whole situation was handled so badly that I am having trouble finding the right words.

Again, I agree.

But I’m not gonna blame O’Brien for it and rip him for it. We need to get behind him, at least initially and give him a fair chance.

Hey Derry, Question for you...

I know where you stand on Bradley as the best and obvious choice. I agree that he is the most qualified and best suited, but I must say that I’m in the camp that agrees that all publicly known coaches who were around through this mess have to go. It’s not fair or right, but I believe it’s what needed to be done.

With that assumption (that it couldn’t be Bradley), I don’t think we’re being rational in saying that big hire was a given. If you talk to anyone without emotional ties to PSU, anyone at all, they say the same thing “who would want to coach there right now?” Emphasis on right now.

I think that Joyner and Lubert chased the big dogs, and passed over more qualified “middle tier” guys in the process. I think that Munchak’s rejection shocked them. I think that once he and Petersen both became firm no’s, they realized that they couldn’t go back to the Mullens, Goldens, or even Schianos of the world and say “sorry, we really want you to be our guy now.”

The reason that they waited 50+ days to make this kind of hire was not by design; they swung for the fences, and struck out. They had the same blue and white tinted glasses on that we all did in thinking that Happy Valley doesn’t stink right now.

Top coaches will want to come here again only if we as fans continue to support the team. What makes PSU different are the expectations; excellence in the classroom and on the field, and a willingness to support some shortcomings on the field if it means doing things “the right way.” We make this a destination job more than anything else.

This is exactly it

They had the same blue and white tinted glasses on that we all did in thinking that Happy Valley doesn’t stink right now.

Those who actually agreed with the reports that the job was ‘toxic’ were mercilessly attacked here as being out-of-touch.

You know M1EK, nobody ever likes a "Told you so" person

just a little fyi

Yeah

And you know what? I don’t particularly care for people who never get called into account for being repeatedly wrong and viciously attack people while doing so. So there’s where we are.

M1EK

Do you want to meet for drinks sometime?

I'll bring the rapiers.

No I was being serious

I just want to meet this guy in real life so I can understand that even someone I loathe online can be a decent human being. I would even pay.

I think of this as some form of human enlightment or some shit

Actually, I expect he's just fine.

In many ways he’s been providing some valuable checks and balances — something clearly needed to prevent a discussion from becoming self-perpetuating.

I expect the same and that is why I want to meet him to prove to myself that we are all the same.

That's a stirring invitation

I loathe you online too. So let’s be friends!

Seriously, where do you live? I come to PA twice a year for about 2-3 weeks each time

I really would like to get a drink and talk football.

DEAD SERIOUS, no sarcasm

Austin, Texas

I was born there

Unfortunately I never get near Texas. Maybe a rain check someday.

Well at least one good thing came out of all of this

University Park police aren't real, right?

You’re a fucking joke.

Oh God

It’s me and M1EK. Please don’t ban me.

But it's not true that others don't immediately start recruiting.

Joyner has told us that the Jan 13th weekend is very important. BoB will be in Foxboro.

Do I misunderstand you or....

Do you think that O’Brien will have his staff and be recruiting actively by the 13th?

I certainly do not think that.

I think every other coach, and every good coach would.

And that is what confuses me about this reported hire. Either Joyner has lied again about wanting the coach in by net weekend to recruit or this report is false (which is getting harder and harder to believe).

Ben16 - January 6, 2012 reply

It's a shame that Penn State gave an interview to Tom Bradley when they obviously had zero intention of offering him the job.

I can assure you, Maryland would be happy to take in Bradley and Johnson for our defensive staff.

Tezcatlipoca - January 6, 2012 reply

If O'Brien wants to win anyone over,

he should resign from he Patriots, effectively immediately, and come to University Park. In other words, he needs to take a page from Chambers’ book.

exactly..... and retaining ljs wouldn't hurt

Truth.

Staying on with the Pats is making a questionable situation much, MUCH worse.

Seriously

This guy has to know he’s not the fanbase’s first, second, third, or 30th choice. Getting his ass here pronto and hitting the recruiting trail with a fury would at least show he’s committed. Staying with the Pats through the playoffs is a HUGE red flag, IMO.

Honestly

plus the fact that all the leaks seem to be coming from his camp (obviously, as PSU seems to have forgotten how to send out a press release again). Had he kept his mouth shut until saturday, shown up at Penn State and said something, the reaction would not be this bad. People would be upset, but not as angry. Red flags everywhere.

Exactly.

Unless he makes a commitment to us, I don’t see why we have to make a commitment to him. I don’t mind waiting to see if he is good, or fails completely, but I am not going to be excited at all until he atleast gives us some kind of commitment.

Thank you

Im to rage filled to argue anything coherently, but I agree with this 100%. Until he gives me reason to otherwise, I dont have to commit to him. And he has a chance to give me that reason tomorrow. Assuming he’s going to be at the press conference.

LOL

Yes, he could completely win me over at the press conference, by saying he will hit the ground running recruiting, loves PSU, wants to stay forever, you know basically anything a fan would say/want to hear.

If he says can’t wait to be back when the season is over and get some new uniforms…..well then the only other time I will be lsitening to him is when he resigns/is fired.

If the way this fiasco has been handled is any indication,

our boy will be in Foxboro and the press conference will consist of AD Minion handing the questioning over to a speakerphone positioned on a table.

Ugh. I never thought of that.

If O’Brien isn’t at the press conference that will be disappointing.

I look forward to the big recruiting weekend coming up

I can just see Joyner sending out invitations to recruits that say “Dear PSU recruit. Hi. How are you? I am fine. Please come to PSU and meet our new head coach! Well, not really meet him, but you can see him on TV standing next to Bill Bellicheck. That’s worth something, right? But we’ve got lots of other things you like. Everybody loves cookies and punch, right? And we’ll be playing some of that hippity hop music that you youngsters listen to. And maybe some Dr. Pepper. Let’s have a real good time!”

GMac14 - January 6, 2012 reply

Schefter is reporting

that Titans Offensive Quality Control Coach will be BOBs new runningback coach.

Awesome --- what a great start

“Hey Silas, I really think you should have cut that last run up the middle. I mean, I know what I’m talking about. Last year I was with the Titans and as I was trying to keep all the players from stepping over the white line and getting a penalty, I saw Chris Johnson run up the middle once…”

GMac14 - January 6, 2012 reply

Offensive Quality Control?

Penn State Football, Inc., a subsidiary of Penn State, Inc., a partnership of Morons, Inc., d.b.a. “The Board of Trustees” a.k.a. “Imbeciles & Associates”

He was the RB coach at Duke for 1 year in 2005

otherwise, he’s been a QC Coach in the NFL

Oh sweet merciful Jesus

This will be heading from bad to worse. No OC or DC, but we have an RB coach. Good, good. Helpful.

If he says he's going to call his own offensive plays

I’m going to kick someone in the nuts.

DECIDED SCHEMATIC ADVANTAGE!

/barfs
//chugs bourbon
///barfs again

Do you think we can snag a Special Teams coach from the NFL to go along with our other new coaches?

Andy Reid.

Jesus Christ...

with this reaction. Nobody has said anything. We have never heard O’Brien talk. We know nothing about him.

Look I am no fan of Joyner or Erickson but I am not ready to dump my fandom because of this hire. There were no truly exciting hires out there. Munchak was never coming, none of the big names were coming and I’d take anyone over perennial 6-6 New Jersey U coach Schiano. This is the same as Clements or Roman. I wouldn’t be excited for any of them but they picked O’Brien. He has my support because he is the Head Football Coach at Penn State.

I’m not saying this will happen but if he starts off great and turns into a fantastic hire I hope you all remember never giving him a chance. We are smarter fans then this let him talk let Joyner talk and give the guy our support.

I am disappointed in the reaction from some former players also. I know they are upset but support your school. LaVar is one of my favorites and him denouncing Penn State means hes’s denouncing me and every fan who has always supported him.

All that being said I will be upset and it will be starting on the wrong foot if he doesn’t resign from the Pats when he is announced Saturday. But again only ESPN (since when do we give them any respect) is reporting that. Nothing has come from PSU yet. WE don’t know for a fact he is staying with the Pats.

Lavar is denouncing the current PSU administration

he said he loves all us alums and the school he used to know.

He said he was putting his Butkus Award and Bowl Game MVP in storage...

And taking down all his Penn State memoribilia. And going to root for whatever school Bradley goes too. I’ll root for Bradley too (as long as its not Pitt) but that isn’t just ripping the administration. Thats severing all ties with Penn State. This has been a rough few months what we don’t need is high profile alums saying shit like that. He can say he hates Joyner, Erickson etc and wanted Scrap as coach but say he still supports the current players and the new coach. He didn’t say that.

Well he did say he doesnt trust the BoT and hates what he thinks they turned PSU into

I’m sure he still loves PSU, but he doesnt like what they’re becoming. I kindof agree with him (though not nearly to the same extreme).

I am upset at a lot of people too

It’s just quotes like this that bother me; " I’m done. I’m done with Penn State." As pissed as I have been I have never said that.

He should be more careful with how he expresses himsef.

Knowing that the MSM will pick and choose quotes and not put quotes in context. Never say anything short and sweet that can be used as a bottom line headline or 2 second sound bite.

Yeah I agree

He and others feel like Bradley not geting a legit shot is because he’s being blamed as if he knew something about Sandusky, which is the same as saying guys like Lavar and Short knew something too. And yet the administration is coming to him with their hands out asking for money and treating him like that.

I understand how they feel

And they are obviously much closer and personally connected to the program then I am. But just what belbijou said ESPN and other media is going to run with these out of context quotes without any attempt to qualify them. They are already quoting Short in their O’Brien hired article.

And don't ask me why

but I was listening to Mike and Mike (I also enjoy shoving screwdrivers in my ears) this morning and they started with talking about the backlash. I was just upset that the backlash is becoming the story. I like to think of us as better fans than that instead of firing a guy before his first press conference. This is how UCLA reacted. Is that who we want to be associated with?

Can you blame us?

This hire just shows how “un-elite” we are right now. That might change when we fire this guy in 3 years, but really you go from JoePa to some guy who has never succeeded on the college level, and gains most of his credibility from walking into a pre-established dynasty in its waning years.

And I think it is the realization that we are so "un-elite" that has caused this backlash

That and the fact that all the cloak and dagger stuff that went on lead us to this hire. No way he was on their list of candidates in the first 30 days of this process.

Yeah...

really you go from JoePa to some guy who has never succeeded on the college level, and gains most of his credibility from walking into a pre-established dynasty in its waning years

This is why I’m perplexed. I just don’t see the part of his resume that says he can pull this off. Maybe I’m wrong, but the complete failure by so many NE assistants in the past wasn’t a red flag?

Its comments like

That might change when we fire him in 3 years is what I am upset about. Come on man he hasn’t even been introduced yet. Let’s see what he does. Give him a chance. If he starts 0-2 in the Big Ten ok then we can start having those conversations. He wasn’t the first choice clearly. But what were we expecting after the shitstorm that hit our school the last 2 months. I am just happy that we have a coach and can start moving forward no matter who it is.

I don't care if I upset you

I didn’t personally attack you, and I am clearly entitled to state a reasonable opinion. This hire SUCKS, we left LJ and the other coaches twisting in the wind for this? Go ahead and tow the company line, but I am not. I am calling this what it is: Desperation.

That's fine

I didn’t claim you personally attacked me. By saying I was upset I guess I should have said I disagree with you and many others about firing the guy before he’s talked to a recruit or coached even a Spring Game. He wasn’t my first choice (Bradley) or even a choice since I never heard of him before this search started. But I came to the realization weeks ago we weren’t getting a big time hire. I’m just happy they finally hired somebody and I am willing to wait and see how this plays out.

Exactly. WE do not need to be the story. The TEAM needs to the story. Penn State, for better or worse, needs to be the story. Their actions speak for themselves. If there was a time for fan/player backlash, wasn’t that 50 days ago? Why are we suddenly getting attention now? Oh wait, I know, it fits the narrative ESPN wants to use…

Honestly

I feel like the administration is trying to severe all ties with the school. His symbolic acts to severe his ties with Penn State are really acts to severe ties with an administration that apparently doesn’t get it.

There are guys I’d give the benefit of the doubt to over Scrap. This guy is not one of them.

I'm not a huge fan of this hire (if it's even true)

But, yeah this reaction is absurd. I thought we were the “wait for all the facts” people?

speedomike - January 6, 2012 reply

This.

My biggest point

And I forgot to say it so thank you. “Wait for the facts.” How quickly we forget.

If it is a fact

that he took the job, and was offered, while going to finish out the NFL season, that is enough for me not to be happy with the hire.

Is it a fact?

That he is finishing the NFL season. I don’t disagree that it’s likely and I won’t be happy with it. But the only people reporting that are ESPN sources. I’ll repeat… fucking ESPN sources. Lets wait til Saturday. Then we can be mad about him being in this half way.

The same ESPN sources

that nailed this story Sunday and we laughed at?

I said IF

because if he is hired and commits to the team, then I will be right behind him.

I listened to most of BOB's press conference from august.....

and now i don’t hate him. I need to see his 11th hour recruiting performance and the product on the field at the beginning of B1G play this fall.

Until I see what he can do I will let it play out

Who knows he might be the best HC ever. Everyone knew it was going to be a overhaul of the staff. We all knew it was not going to be a hire from the inside or anyone that had PSU ties. I can’t wait to see what he can do and if he is bad then I want him out of there but if he is good then what a great find that would be. We have never O’Brian talk or know anything about him. All we ever hear from is his agent. I want to see what he has to say before I over react like everyone.

jetskijoe - January 6, 2012 reply

Pretty much the exact same way I feel.

I’m excited to see what he can do. If he fails, get rid of him. I’d feel and say the same about whoever the hire was.

right!

a few beers and some sleep have calmed me down alot

My anger is aimed at the administration.

Without a formal acknowledgment from PSU, you’re letting coaches and players find this stuff out via ESPN and Twitter. That is extremely disrespectful to the most loyal coaches in college football. Then we wait two months for a hire to be made and we get a guy that most people have never heard of.

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance as I would any coach, but I’m not happy with how this had played out. I worry that if O’Brien does have success here, he will bolt at the first opportunity.

And....

I’m pissed that he will finish out the year in NE. Condemns our recruiting to death. Doesn’t show he’s committed to the job in my eyes. He should know that this isn’t the most popular decision so getting to State College and hitting the recruiting trail hard would help a lot.

Name one coach in a big program that hasn't been told by ESPN

I mean OSU coach was announced from ESPN. almost everyone wants the store out. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is hired and then quits. We don’t know if he is going to finish out his year in NE or not.

jetskijoe - January 6, 2012 reply

From now on

Can we make it a site policy to include a title with all image posts a la EDSBS? Not calling out M1EK specifically because it’s been done several times in the thread, but I’d like my goofing off at work to be discreet as possible, and that’s tricky when there are huge macros all over the screen.

EXCELLENT POINT!!

It makes it much tougher to hide.

These clowns really don't have a clue.

That sums it up.

Dang.

I agree 100% with M1EK on something.

We’re truly at the end of days, my friends. End of days.

Our leadership has done the impossible:

Given me a reason to look back fondly on the McClatchy/Littlefield stewardship of the Pirates.

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH SL

SHUT IT HARD!

Come on people

O’Brien doesn’t look like a guy who will be at PSU for the long haul, whether he is good, bad or in between. And guess what, that is the right move. Even if he was “only” the guy following Paterno, that’s the sort of situation that is probably going to be a short termer. The Sandusky scandal only made following Paterno worse.

Honestly, I’m happy that anyone with any solid experience wants to come into this environment. He’s set to fail by following Paterno, and he’s stepping into the Sandusky fallout. At least he has some balls and ambition to think he can emerge ahead in this scenario.

Let’s cut the delusional thinking here. Under these circumstances PSU was not going to land its top candidate. The next 5-10 years are going to be ugly, so suck it up and deal. Once the scandal is in the rear view mirror and the administrative issues (Uh, Schultz doing his pedo coverup thing) related to it have been addressed, then it’s time to consider a definite long term hire.

So close!

You had me until

(Uh, Schultz doing his pedo coverup thing)

If you want to be taken seriously around here, you can’t make completely unintelligent statements like this.

Phrase it however you want

but there definitely was a problem with the PSU/State College culture. Maybe Schultz is a convenient lightning rod, but he was the person in the position to go after Sandusky. I lay very little blame on Paterno. But the PSU administration at best missed warning signs, and at worst knowingly did nothing. Schultz knew about 1998 without a doubt, and to not aggressively pursue later incidents is negligent.

Maybe you are just in denial that there is a need for some cultural changes at the institution. I for one am sick that the administrative response to the 1998 then 2002 shower incidents was just to politely ask Sandusky not to bring kids to campus. Really? Even if there wasn’t enough evidence to bring charges, at least remove him from that venue altogether.

Schultz is an idiot.

I definitely think he’s easily the most to blame, but the evidence points to him being incompetent more than actively covering anything up. This has been rehashed so many times on here that I’m not going to get into it with you.

Schultz is an idiot.

Fact

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

He's their transition plan

With the environment so toxic, possibly more shoes to drop, and following a legend, no big name wanted the job. This is a win for them and O’Brien. They get a 3-4 year transition coach that no one will remember, and he gets his stepping stone to the nfl head coaching job that he said he prefers to college jobs. If he wins at all, thats a bonus, if not, they will get through the sandusky crap, get back on stable ground, and then go after the big name in 4-5 years. I think it just took so long because they underestimated how bad this whole thing really was to our reputation and how little interest there would be from anyone who is anyone. I am more interested honestly in who else stays and who goes, ie. Johnson, Vanderlinden, Srap, JayPa, etc. If he will coach out the NFL season, he needs those guys recruiting or we will be buried. Time will tell, I’m willing to give the guy a chance.

Wonderful

I wake up to this this morning. Un fucking beleivable. Fuck Joyner. My rage knows no bounds at this point.

anything concrete on a pres conference???????????????

you'll get a telegram

with a number you can call in to hear the press conference over speakerphone.

I see what you did there.

The presser will be pre-recorded

right?

GoToMeeting.com

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

candygram

even better, a pajamagram

lionalum05 - January 6, 2012 reply

Yeah, I'm disappointed, you're disappointed, but this is absolutely unncessary:

ESPN.com: “[Brandon] Short said some members of the [Penn State Lettermen] were considering a range of options to express their displeasure, including asking current players to transfer and recruits to de-commit. Short told USA Today they were mulling a lawsuit in an effort to bar Penn State from using their likenesses or images for marketing purposes.”

C’mon, men, act like role models. My heart aches for my university today.

tomatpsu - January 6, 2012 reply

If only someone who actually did something in the pro’s came out and said something I might care. But considering the only good thing Short did in the pro’s was get in a fight with Jeremy Shockey, I could give a shit.

Sounds like Short & co. are trying to force Joyners hand into nixing the hire

But man, I never thought I’d hear a former player say it is his intent to convince players and recruits to bolt. Hard to believe it’s come to this.

If Short actually pursues trying to get recruits to bail and players to transfer...

then he is a piece of shit. Doesn’t he get it? Penn State was never going to get a big name guy. By all accounts they were turned down by the first few choices. Is this the best they could do with what was out there? No. But it wasn’t the worst either. This was probably never going to go the way we the fans, or even ex players wanted it to go.

If he wants to actually do something about and for Penn State then he needs to help clean up the imagine, not instigate further piling on.

I thought he wanted someone with ties to the program

not necessarily a big name

Maybe?

But how many of those options were really out there? Golden was a no. Munchak was a no. And not many people wanted Schiano.

LJ, Vandy, Scrap

any and all would have worked just fine.

The fact that they were obviously not even considered shows how spineless the BoT is and continues to be.

Absolutely.

But like I said, we all knew that was not going to happen.

And like I've said a number of times

Fine. But then the search committee shouldn’t be bullshitting both us and them. Say they are cutting ties and stop stringing along those guys and the fanbase on false hope built on outright lies.

Is it an outright lie?

They didn’t say anything one way or the other. It may be the cowards way of doing it but it also gave them the benefit of saying that they didn’t outright disregard anyone. Especially if they do decide to keep on guys like LJ and Vandy.

They said that Scrap had a chance

Gave him an interview. And in subsequent statements, Joyner said that current staff were not precluded from being hired.

Its obvious with the hire they made that Scrap never had a chance. Obviously, if they would have been able to get a guy they wanted (Munchak, Petersen) then it wouldn’t have been obvious, because the general feeling would have been that those were better hires. As it stands, we’re looking at an obviously worse hire and can quite clearly see that Scrap never had a chance to be head coach, even though Joyner publicly said he did.

As it stands, we’re looking at an obviously worse hire

Well I don’t agree with this. Would be nice to see what he does before we pass judgement.

and can quite clearly see that Scrap never had a chance to be head coach, even though Joyner publicly said he did.

I don’t disagree with you here.

I'll give the guy a shot

But he’s a high risk hire. He has no college track record of success. He actually doesn’t have much of a resume, period.

But I think its safe to say that he is an obviously worse hire than Bradley, at the moment. Does he have a chance to be successful? Yes. And I hope he is while maintaining loyalty to PSU values.

Scrap was turned down by other schools, too.

Also, Scrap went 1-3 as a head coach with two embarrassing performances. However, we’re told to discount that and give him a pass because of the scandal and all its fallout. Then on the other hand we’re hearing that if O’Brien doesn’t win immediately with a lesser talented team and with the scandal still hanging over the team then he should be fired.

This.

It appears you are combining my argument

about Bradely, with someone elses argument about BOB. Just FYI, to try and keep things straight.

Don't need a big name

Just need someone who will commit to the program, and/or have PSU ties. Not hard to comprehend that all the information out about this guy points to neither.

Absolutely.

And who knows, O’Brien may get here and decide he loves it and never wants to leave. I’m not a fan of this hire either but I don’t have the platform or the ability to sway current players and recruits like Short does.

Joyner and the Search Committee just took a huge shit on everything that was PSU

I can’t say that I blame anyone who reacts negatively, no matter how far it goes.

These guys played for Bradley and he gets passed over for this? Really? I don’t think they would have been overjoyed with anyone other than Bradley, but this guy is so far removed from being anyone that Temple (or Pitt) would have considered, that it is nothing less than a denunciation of everything that Penn State stood for under Paterno.

Right

I think that if it wasn’t a plan C hire, we wouldn’t see this backlash. But the fact of the matter is we have a plan C coach when a very obvious plan A/B guy has been busting his balls for PSU for the past 8 weeks. Thats where the anger is coming from.

Can you imagine how the staff feels right now

You think you’re angry?

How hard would it have been

For Joyner (a former letterman himself) to call some of the vocal leaders of the lettermen or meet with them in person and show them respect.

“The Penn State Family is very important to what we’re trying to do, and we don’t want to do anything to alienate them. Let’s talk about some of your concerns and I’ll give you an update on where we’re at in the search.”

Then if Munchak and Golden actually were approached and were not interested, share that. If the reasons for not wanting to hire Bradley or LJSR as HC were related to the scandal, explain the concerns to them, and even if you can’t convince them you’re doing the right thing, you at least show them respect and openness about the process. They might still be mad that Bradley et al couldn’t be considered, but they won’t feel that anyone turned their back on them. It would have gone a long way not to brush them off and act smugly, then do something they don’t agree with.

See, that's a how a reasonable person thinks

But apparently Joyner is sure he’s got the biggest one in the room, and felt the need to swing it around some. And that leaves us with BOB.

Well he seems to BE

the biggest dick anyway.

Rec'd

For this because I feel the same way….

Then if Munchak and Golden actually were approached and were not interested, share that. If the reasons for not wanting to hire Bradley or LJSR as HC were related to the scandal, explain the concerns to them, and even if you can’t convince them you’re doing the right thing, you at least show them respect and openness about the process. They might still be mad that Bradley et al couldn’t be considered, but they won’t feel that anyone turned their back on them. It would have gone a long way not to brush them off and act smugly, then do something they don’t agree with.

Agreed

Very disappointed in how these players reacted. After I was so happy with how they presented themselves in recent months as the men Joe Pa made them. They are the most public faces of Penn State please don’t join the piling on.

Thats bad

I understand their frustrations, but that isn’t the way to handle things.

That's definitley not a good way to respond

If we’re a family, we fight around the dinner table, not in the street. We should be expressing our anger/frustration/hurt to each other, come up with a solution and then present that solution to the world. The world does not need to see our internal food fight.

Sounds like

several former players wanted to fill the power vacuum and are now salty they were unable to. Also, they are children.

This had nothing to do with it?

Short said members of the Letterman’s Club attempted to discuss the hiring process with Joyner but were rebuffed by an "arrogant, nonchalant and egotistical attitude by anyone who approached him.’’

where's that quote from?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/01/former-penn-state-players-upset-with-football-coaching-hire/1

This article

Also here is another take

"It just doesn’t do anything for me," ESPN analyst and former Penn State quarterback Todd Blackledge said this morning on SportsCenter, adding he doesn’t know O’Brien and would reserve judgment about his coaching ability.

I think that is the line I am going to take on this

“It just doesn’t do anything for me.”

Oh no...

so an arrogant and egotistical athlete was rebuffed with the same type of attitude? What a joke.

That's one interpretation

Another is that former athletes, many of whom have played for current or former coaches who may have been candidates for the job, were sent away with disdain and told that their opinions meant less than one man who last played a down of meaningful football 40 years ago.

It’s not their job to make a decision nor are they entitled to voice their opinion. I understand these former players aren’t employees of Penn State but the comparison still holds. How many managers or CEO’s consult former employees when they make new hires?

Not entitled to voice their opinion

That statement right there sums the whole problem up.

How so?

How hard would it have been for Joyner to hold a closed town hall meeting with the Letterman's club

So he could take their input? You would think after epoch such as the Sandusky horror that he would want to rally the family. Instead he did what the media ripped Penn State for doing, becoming insular and arrogant towards outside influence, or opinion.

As I said before these men did more for Penn State football than 99% of the world’s population, they at least deserved to be respectfully listened to.

This

Turning people away may work when those people don’t have: (i) anything relevant to contribute or (ii) a platform to communicate their displeasure; but it’s also a surefire way to piss off those people and the large group of people who revere them.

It’s simply a matter of being tone deaf. Something that the BoT and Joyner apparently see as a possitive.

Former employees

do not equal in any way former players and alumni.

Former employees do equal former players in the sense that both were involved at one time, may have done great work while they were there but are no longer there and because they are no longer there they really don’t have to get a say if the school or employing institution doesn’t want them to.

No, they do not, in any way

equal each other. Alumni should have a say in their school, former employees shouldn’t in their old places of employment. I honestly don’t think you could be more wrong in this opinion.

Why?

Why should Alumni have a say in their school? They aren’t there any longer. They paid the school to get something while they were they. Now they are gone.

Because the school depends on their monetary support?

And parades them around like circus animals

to get larger donations from people.

The vast majority of alumni at Penn State and most institutions do not donate back to the school. The money the school may depend on is from the student while they are there.

The school is a business like any other and like any other business, they will consult the people that work for them before they get influence from outside sources, whether they are former employees or alumni of that institution.

OK, why are several members of the BOT decided by alumni voting?

I jsut honestly cannot comprehend why you wouldn’t think alumni should have a say and a connection to the school so I honestly have nothing. It is mind boggling, your opinion.

Because I serve on the Board for the school I graduated from.

I know how it’s run.

I didn’t say that alumni can’t, or shouldn’t have a say, I said they shouldn’t feel entitled to have a say.

Well I think your world sucks

and I don’t want to live in it.

I think this is (almost) completely correct.

In many ways, I don’t blame Joyner for telling these guys to get lost. If he starts letting a few former players have input into the process, it only opens the floodgates to “Hey, why will you listen to Franco, but not to me! I was an All-American too!”. Those former players were highly likely to only argue for coaches who were not under consideration in the first place, like Bradley.

All of that said, maybe Joyner could’ve used a little extra help with this one.

I agree completely. Joyner maybe could have done it differently but in the end, I don’t have a problem with what he did so much maybe as how he did it.

I think a simple town hall meeting where the letterman's club could speak in a group forum would have

taken that influence thing out of the equation and allowed Joyner to get a pulse on some influential folks. Instead he gave them a big “up yours” and he now has to deal with this.

The obvious response from players here is that they were “strung along,” and that Joyner disrespectfully ignored their opinions in the meeting. It’s hard for me to imagine the players not reacting this way in every situation except on in which TB is hired as head football coach.

I’m not supporting Joyner at all here, but at what other school, ever, do former players get to pick the next coach? Why is it so outrageous that we didn’t straw poll former players, who like Chris mentions are extremely bias to internal hires?

There you go again.....

….saying nothing I can agree with. UGH!

Even if he didn't intend to use their advice

Just lending an ear to someone and having a conversation with them shows a lot of respect. I think more than angry that Joyner went outside “the family” so to speak, the Lettermen feel disrespected. I know it might not seem too different on the surface, but there’s a sea of difference between being ignored and having your advice ignored. In one case, your opinion doesn’t matter at all, in the other it just didn’t matter as much as something else.

i agree the former players need to calm down

Officially in "whatever" territory.

I’m there. How dare I think that this search would have been handled well. How dare I think we would get a coach that would have an approval rate about 10%. How dare I think that this recruiting class could be salvaged. You know when ‘Bama hired Saban, their stadium was packed for the spring game? Well, don’t expect the same in Beaver Stadium in April.

On the bright side, maybe ticket prices for our games will come down and I’ll get some better seats. It is what it is. There is nothing I can do about it. Mr. O’Brien, let’s see what you got…

Will the stadium be packed again at all in the next 12 months?

I doubt it.

Zero chance.

OSU is coming to town

their fans travel pretty well, and they’re looking at a W. Maybe they’ll buy our tickets and fund our other programs. Because our fans won’t.

The stadium wasn't always full this year

You add the loss of Joe, scandal and a thoroughly uninspired hire … I mean, what do they expect? Who’s showing up for that beyond locals and students (maybe, if the team wins)?

Students? Lol.

LOL is right

Navy might have a similar number of people

cheering for them as PSU does during the game. I still want to go to that one because I will not feel that bad if we lose. BUt I cannot fathom seeing the Temple players celebrating on our field.

Alabama did

jtothep - January 6, 2012 reply

Ticket prices? Come down?

Surely you jest. The arrogance of the administration knows no bounds. No way they bring down ticket prices as well.

Ah, I buy from salty fans at a discount...

who rather watch the game at home while flipping through the ESPN networks trying to find a better game.

Pete Carroll

I know it’s not an apples to apples comparison, but does anyone know or remember what the USC alumni/fan reaction to the hiring of Pete Carroll was?

stevea3 - January 6, 2012 reply

And how well did that Pete Carroll hire go for them?

Just slightly better than Penn State’s hiring of Jerry Sandusky.

um, lol?

SC is about winning at any cost. LA is populated by LA douchebags—they’ll go bankrupt so long as they can look cool doing it. I’d say Carroll worked out well for them.

Right

because the loss of 30 scholarships and a 2-year bowl ban is just GREAT.

A couple things...

Carroll was a cheater. And if he didn’t cheat he may not be as fondly remembered as he is now.
It’s Southern Cal, pretty easy to recruit there. You have to be absolute garbage to not do well there.

No argument that he was a cheater and left there with a tarnished reputation...

and the school in bad shape with sanctions and scholarship reductions.

But I’m curious when he was first hired, how did alumni and fans react?

stevea3 - January 6, 2012 reply

I honestly can't answer that.

Football fans in LA said

“…”

UCLA disagrees with that last statement.

Well that’s what happens when you hire idiots and don’t cheat.

Also, for every sleeper you show me...

I’ll show you a dozen that have failed. I hate to be pessimistic, but the odds aren’t in our favor here.

Just want to make sure I have it right

1. This guy is going to suck no matter what. But we aren’t reactionary and we wait for all the fact to come out.
2.Because this guy is going to suck, we’re going to cancel season tickets, pull donations, and have former players disassociate themselves from the program. Which will make things even harder for him, and could ultimately set the program back even farther.

Look, my intial reaction to this hire is lolwut. But, we’ve been clamoring for a young, energetic, offensive-minded coach for years. We have that now and we’re all assuming it’s doomed from the start.

speedomike - January 6, 2012 reply

Without addressing number 2, because it's not my reaction.

I think number one is off. This guy is going to suck because he has a track record of either poor performance or those around him not having confidence in him.

He tore Brady a new one

doesn’t that make you just a little happy he wiped that smug grin off Brady’s face?

Id actually prefer a guy that Brady respected

or at least somebody respected.

“I don’t know what’s going to happen,” Brady said when asked if he would miss O’Brien’s coaching. “I hope he’s here for a long time and I told him that, too.”

tomatpsu - January 6, 2012 reply

Yeah, a temper tantrum directed at a HOF QB

isn’t exactly something resume building material

I bet Brady's wife and his baby momma have tore into him as well...

maybe we can hire one to run the D and one to run the O.

Gisselle would be

a pretty decent recruiter I’d bet. GB would be the new LJ.

I’d be fine with either or both trolling the sidelines. That’s an instant improvement. Anything that actually happens on the field is a bonus.

Seriously?

Not even a little bit. (1) Brady talks to his receivers after every drive, and is always firey when does. Why is BoB never talking to the offense after failed drives? (2) Even if he’s right, save it for in-house. (3) If you’re the coach, be the bigger man and admit it doesn’t belong on the sideline. (He didn’t, Brady had to man up and do it).

Not seriously

Should have used the kidding font—Brady’s been a Pat so long maybe we forget to hate him because he is a Michigan man.

Sorry,

I’m really in a terrible mood over this. Seriously. With or without another job lined up, the Pats weren’t even going to retain him. They chose not to promote him to OC and instead left the position vacant for a long period of time. When they “named” him OC they didn’t give him a new contract or a raise. BAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I don't know if he is going to suck

and frankly, if he commits to the program and does suck, I won’t hate him for it. But if he doesn’t commit and fucks with the traditions and basically acts like Dave Joyner, then I will hate him.

People have been clamoring for a young, energetic offensive minded coach for years

we also wanted a talented one. Ron Zook was probably all of those things at one point too, and I certainly didnt want him.

Amen.

GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!

GOOD FUCKING MORNING!

A new Penn State football day is dawning. Learn to laugh at your team sometimes. It will help. Trust a Browns fan on this one.

wbfat

whats up you wikipedia prophet?

I'm adjusting to the idea of football Saturdays and Sundays becoming roughly equivalent.

Eh, now I can just take my time finishing other more pressing needs

The game on internet radio will suffice.

Dig . . .

I follow the Buccos.

SL, I think that gives us a different viewpoint

As far as fanaticism, my rooting interests go 1. Penn State, 2. Pirates, 3. Steelers

Penn State has been the most frustrating over the past decade. The Pirates are usually always terrible, and the personnel moves of the old GMs were frustrating, but ultimately it would feel like he was making the different between 100 and 80 losses, and how upset can you really get about that? It’s like getting upset about a C on a 10-point quiz when your GPA is a 2.2.

The Steelers are basically always excellent, and it’s really hard to even squabble with the things they do. Sure they miss the playoffs every now and then, but it’s the NFL. The biggest qualm an intelligent person can have with the Steelers is with off-field stuff, and again, it’s the NFL.

But Penn State is somewhere in between. I understand both sides of the coin. Excepting mediocrity and expecting success. It’s preparing me to still be able to be a fan come what may.

Seriously

The problem in this is NOT that they ended up with O’Brien. He very well could have been the best person without PSU ties that was willing to take the job.

The problem in this is that Joyner made it look like they had a home-run hire when they clearly didn’t, and when anybody without the blue-tinted glasses was really skeptical they’d be able to get one.

It makes our ‘new’ administration look like every bit as much the nitwits as the ‘old’ one did.

+1 for the best post from you ever

Correct . . .

The ineptitude which the process revealed is what has me so pissed off, not necessarily O’Brien.

You might go green for this

In a very difficult and trying time they needed to make a quick decision on

replacing a very successful man. They needed someone to fill in quickly in the most difficult of circumstances and they needed to get it right, badly.

Instead, we got Joyner. It’s clear now that the AD vacancy was the one we needed to get right more than any other.

This is pretty true.

If it looked like the process was being handled correctly, people might be more confident in a hire out of left field.

Oh God, agreeing with M1EK again

But yea. Rule number one of sales: Manage expectations.

Still think they swung for the fences and lost. Would we be happy if they didn’t? Is there any way to be happy in all this? Nope.

I agree with this sentiment

I’ll add that a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that Bradley was passed over for an obvious plan C guy. That implies that he never really had a shot at the job to begin with, which makes me even angrier about how he (and the rest of the staff) were treated.

If they were never going to hire him, fine. But be honest with the most loyal men to the PSU program. Let them know they don’t have a shot and give them a chance to find new jobs. The fact that they fucked them over so badly is a testiment to the complete lack of integrity of Joyner and Ira. It also goes against everything Penn State stands for.

+1

Mostly for this:

The fact that they fucked them over so badly is a testiment to the complete lack of integrity of Joyner and Ira. It also goes against everything Penn State stands for.

which is why I worry that BOB will go against everything PSU as well

He’s Joyner and Ira’s guy and they couldnt handle this right. I’m supposed to have faith that two incompetent guys were able to hire a guy who isnt incompetent himself?

If they change the uniforms

I am done.

BOT bungled it so badly from the start

they had to let go of Bradley. They made him guilty by association.

So I guess my point is that it’s not a huge surprise they went with a non-PSU HC given how they used JoePa as a speed bump for ESPN’s controversy bus. It sucks. But it just isn’t coming out of thin air like the JoePa firing.

Like I said

Thats fine. But be honest with both the fanbase and particularly those guys, from the start. If they didn’t want to hire them, fine. But don’t continue the fucking shirade and give everyone a sense of false hope. Its a classless, shitty move.

I STRONGLY disagree

I honestly think that if they had removed "interim" from his title we would have much less of a news story than we do right now – and they haven’t even formally announced anything yet.

Alright, I've calmed down

so now what happens?

Hopefully,

the reports are wrong and our real HC is revealed tomorrow.

oh man, if that happens I am going to look so silllllllyyyyyyyy

You are going to look silly?

If you are going to look silly, what does that make me?

Because of the giant smile on your face?

Maybe Bob is going to take the podium, and the real coach will burst through a fake wall and tackle his ass.

And they conducted this extensive search to find the goofiest looking possible guy.

I'd be much more confident in their abilities

if thats what the search was for.

OH MY GOD THAT'S CHRIS PETERSEN'S MUSIC.

We continue doing what we've become accustomed to doing...

watch it all unfold.

Is it cool if I just do that in the corner and try to not care anymore?

Go for it.

Cheer for the team

and don’t boo Navy when they enter the field.

Hahaha true that.

I might actually root for Navy

I work for the navy though.

Kevin and Chris...

Looking forward to your next football podcast.

60 minutes of bewildered swearing?

That sound about right? Because it’s honestly what the situation calls for.

We’re going to have to work hard to keep it to 60 minutes.

We may have to do a Blog Talk Radio / EDSBS Live style of thing.

So people can call in and swear prolifically.

+1 for this GREAT idea

I would be happy to call in a give you a tirade. I can swear like a preacher.

I may actually violate my own rules

and listen to a podcast if that’s the case!

/furiously learns new curses in new languages

I'm going to call in

and just scream “SONSABITCHES! BUMPUSES!”

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

"Notafinga!"

danpsu97 - January 6, 2012 via iPhone app reply

remain calm, all is well...........

Rec’d for “Animal House” reference – hmmm…that would be a good nickname for the BoT…

Before we crucify Short and Dozier and the other letterman

Short said members of the Letterman’s Club attempted to discuss the hiring process with Joyner but were rebuffed by an "arrogant, nonchalant and egotistical attitude by anyone who approached him.’’

Maybe this is why he is so pissed, and I get it too.

Not sure if it's true or he's just pissed.

But that sounds about right. That’s the vibe I got from Joyner.

True or not, it’s starting to sound to me like the players wanted to pick the coach, were told they couldn’t, and are upset. Not to defend Joyner & Co., but there’s a weird sense of entitlement coming from ex-players.

It sounds to me that they felt they needed a Penn Stater for this position

Nothing more, and that every time they tried to be heard as an organization, as a group that has done MUCH more for the Program than anyone here, save hbeach, they were rebuffed as not being worthy of input.

It seems like the guys doing the talking (Lavar, Brandon etc)

Get what PSU is about. They understand success with honor, and the family culture.

It sounds to me like the guys running the show (the BOT and Joyner specifically) are the antithesis of what PSU is about. And that is why people are pissed off.

To be snarky for a second: I would hardly say public statements about “Being done with Penn State” and/or encouraging current players to transfer is “getting” the Penn State way.

I wouldn't characterize it this way

it’s starting to sound to me like the players wanted to pick the coach

I mean, we all know Lavar can get to flappin, but it wouldn’t take much in the inclusiveness department to avoid this wholesale divisiveness.

I can’t believe I’m gonna make this comparison, but remember when Bob Stoops took over Oklahoma? The first cat he rang up was Barry fucking Switzer. With Switzer’s track record of shady, he easily could’ve just moved forward and not addressed it, but he was super verbal about building upon ALL of of OU’s history, however troubled. He talked heaps of noise about wanting former players around and even brought Switzer in for different events.

I don’t think the PSU Lettermen had any illusions about any power to ‘pick the coach’, and I can totally empathize with their reactions after being given such a cold shoulder. The Power Struggles throughout all of this have been unbelievable.

jtothep - January 6, 2012 reply

I completely agree with this.

Well said.

I don't think they wanted to pick the coach

but wanted a say. I can understand that. It could have all been avoided if they had ONE former player on the committee.

They did...Joyner

Ok, how about one player who believed in what Joe stands for?

What a joke.

Fuck him.

why should they get a say? the only person that could argue having a say is the man with the heisman

I think the players have a reasonable expectation that there opinion should be heard. Doesn’t mean their opinion is right, but it should at least be heard.

I wouldn't take that logical leap

There’s a big difference between wanting to have control and wanting to at least have the opportunity to have token influence. Even if Joyner had no intention of doing anything they said, he should have been welcoming.

One (potential) bright spot

Per Ben’s twitter, Vandy and LJ have interviewed to stay on as assistants. If O’Brien really will be coaching the Pats through signing day, it would make a lot of sense to keep some current staff members.

All of this is less than ideal, but if these two stay on staff, that much of it is an absolute good.

newenglandnittanylion - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

Junny just tweeted a quote from a former Duke QB

that BOB graduates his players. So its looking more like he’s a little closer to what I wanted. Hopefully the whole staying on with the Pats thing isn’t true.

Do you realize what Duke as an institution does for it's players?

The professors are required, not encouraged, required to come to the athletic support building where the players get the best help available. DUKE as a whole graduates it’s players. Get a GT or Maryland guy to say the same thing then I will be happy.

Fair enough

I’m just trying this whole “give him a chance” thing. Because we’re all so keen on giving people chances these days.

I just wanted to share what I personally know and what might not be known by the public at large.

your just looking for excuses now

sorry, you “are”

Junny just tweeted a quote from a former Duke QB that BOB graduates his players.

Well that makes sense considering no one goes to Duke for football.

Keeping Vandy and LJ

would be HUGE.

Yes

I would welcome that.

WHy would they stay?

Artiefufkin10 - January 6, 2012 reply

I wouldn't. I think they've been punched in the face one too many times.

bingo

Artiefufkin10 - January 6, 2012 reply

Maybe because they care for the current players? Who knows, I would love if they stayed but if i was in their position, I would leave.

Ben16 - January 6, 2012 reply

Maybe there aren't any jobs out there right now.

Don’t most new hires have their staffs in place now?

Per Ben’s twitter, Vandy and LJ have interviewed to stay on as assistants. If O’Brien really will be coaching the Pats through signing day, it would make a lot of sense to keep some current staff members.

This is one of the best things (IMHO) BOB could do, i.e., keep as much of the current staff as possible, esp. on the defensive side. I hope this comes to pass.

You should have said.

Keep as many of the defensive staff as possible. You imply that keeping any of the offensive coaches is a good idea. Shame on you.

May I ask why Bradely is not in the discussion to stay on as DC?

Just curious

I would guess he has no interest

You know, after being strung along for the past 2 months and passed over for this guy.

Gotta love how how the internet facilitates meltdowns

We still don’t even have a first impression of this guy yet.

What if he comes across pretty good in his first couple press conferences?
What if he retains LJ as DC?
What if current players like him?
What if he lands Morningweg (sp) and/or some other big offensive recruits?

All of those questions will be answered in the next two weeks. Take a deep breath.

Paterno Ave - January 6, 2012 reply

I get that

I prefer to just avoid the rush and start to freak out now.

LOL

Well said. :)

I liked hating our new coach

before it totally became mainstream – Penn State hipsters

eternalpessimist - January 6, 2012 reply

I will give O'Brien one chance if, and only if...

Dave Joyner gets up to the podium and says, “Let me introduce you to Penn State’s new coach Bill O’Brien, now before I let him answer you’re questions I would just like it to be known that I am stepping down due to gross incompetence effective immediately.” If that happens I will give him one chance, which I think he’ll immediately burn by getting up to the podium and saying that he intends to finish out the season with the Patriots.

10:36 AM, Coaches and Players still haven't been told anything...

Rogue Nine - January 6, 2012 reply

I would love it to be because there isn't anything to tell

but I really just see it as incompetance.

Well due to the backlast among fans that must be obvious.

If this wasn’t true, I think the administration would deny it. Although, I might be giving them too much credit.

They shouldn't get any credit.

ThHey haven’t one anything right.

Apparently I've been aurabass-ing. Whatever the hell that means.

Artiefufkin10 - January 6, 2012 reply

Not until you post 4000 words about the height difference between Dave Joyner and the PSU fanbase.

Well

I’m glad our fanbase is already giving this poor guy no chance. I can’t wait until he loses a game and everyone says he was the worst hire ever. Please give the guy a fair shake at least.

STU Boy - January 6, 2012 reply

I think the anger is directed more at Joyner than O'Brien.

I think there are a reasonable number of people here that will give the guy a chance, but we don’t like how this process was approached.

But it’s also disheartening to hear life long Pats fan condemn the hire. That doesn’t install much confidence.

this.

get over it

we did it with the last coach too.

My point exactly

STU Boy - January 6, 2012 reply

Alternative Theory on BoT Bungling

They’re so bad at this that they’ve given BOB and his agent the impression he’s being hired while actually having little interest

Highly, highly doubt this, but just throwing it out for fun

That would be great

actually.

now that

is a much more likely scenario then them pulling some cloak and dagger shit to mess with people.

Yeah I wouldn't doubt that Joyner has a contract that he lets every candidate sign

and then tells them that he’ll sign the other dotted line at the press conference. There could be 5, 10 coaches out there thinking the same thing!

We as fans are really making PSU attractive for any future coach. NOT

At least BOB had the guts to take the job. Give him a shot.

Dudders - January 6, 2012 reply

When the fans are treated like crap

by the BOT, the fake AD, and a coach who apparently is not willing to commit, how nice should they be?

How nice would the fanbase have been if it was Peterson, Munchak, or another hire? How about if it was Bradley? I think the warm welcome would have made others jealous.

people would have been finding flaws in those guys too.

Not like this

not at all like this.

Wonder if the players/coaches have had their meetings with Joyner yet...

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

It is at 4pm today.

patriots address PSU hire publicly before PSU does. Another epic communication failure.

Bob Kraft has already released a statement. Wow.

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

The BoT...

is intent on fucking this up as badly as they did the whole scandal. It’s almost like they want to do the exact opposite of what makes logical sense.

Where?

Can’t find it.

Shit.

It’s on the Herald?

I would like to say that this is unbelievable.

But no, it’s completely believable.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/?p=16304&srvc=sports&position=recent_bullet

here

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

Yeah.

And told Kraft he would stay without the team throughout the playoffs. Unbelievable.

the patriots website

makes it seem like he’s completely finished with them, which would be a smart move to start the job off right

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

Tweets

Nate Bauer and Ron Musselman both tweeted that Joyner will finally meet with football staff today at 4:00pm

Troutman tweeted

that there is some meeting at 1pm. Not sure if its a player meeting or what.

Lovethosefreakinnittanylions - January 6, 2012 reply

Rambo, Messner, Ortega, Coletta, Jurgensen, Berry, and Krakauer will all be present.

No players or staff.

Anyone who hates O'Brien right now

is no better than anyone who threw JoePa under the bus when the scandal came out. Don’t blame him for the mistakes of others. I hate this hire just as much as any of you, but take a breath and actually think about who to blame.

Kyanz43 - January 6, 2012 reply

I hate President Lackey and AD Minion.

I dont think anyone is mad at BOB per se

except for the fact that he doesnt think its that important to join the team for one of the most important recruiting weekends of the year. But most people are mad at the hire itself and how it was handled. Thats where I’m at. I also dont think he’s going to be an effective coach for PSU, partially due to transferring the failures of the people who hired him onto BOB himself (perhaps unfairly), and partially due to his lack of a track record of success just about everywhere. So really, all of this anger is more at the situation than the man himself, although he really isnt doing anything to help his cause at this point (as all the info up to this point is leaking from him, and the fact he plans on retaining his job with the pats until the end of the season).

I understand that.

But look at it this way… you’re looking at a coach who is doing the OPPOSITE of what RR did in leaving before the postseason. Maybe it’s because he wants a ring and he’s selfish, I don’t know. I don’t like that he’s doing this either, but I’m just trying to look at all points of view. Some people here are seriously overreacting. And yeah, it does look like a lot of people hate O’Brien at the moment. I don’t understand how you can refuse to want him to succeed. I’m not saying to get excited about it because it was such a horrible hire.

I’m really looking forward to the press conference, especially since the recruiting question will surely be brought up. I listen to the station that Lavar’s show is on all day at work (though Lavar isn’t on until 2) and one of O’Brien’s closest friends called in essentially saying he’s the kind of guy who doesn’t care about what others think (Tom Brady or PSU people) and will make his own decisions. He doesn’t take people’s shit. Maybe that’s the attitude we need in this lockerroom

I don’t know what I’m really trying to say. I guess just wait before lashing out… just like what the entire country should have done when the Sandusky allegations came out.

Kyanz43 - January 6, 2012 reply

we haven’t heard directly from him yet. Wait and see what happens tomorrow.

I've said this before, but elsewhere

I don’t hate O’Brien. I hope that he succeeds. I hate the idea of O’Brien.

I don't hate BOB

He’s probably a fine man. Dedicated coach.

But why on earth did we hire him when NO other college program in America with a vacancy would even give him a look?

Excellent point.

Guys, can we calm down?

First of all, nothing has been confirmed, nor do we truly know anything about this guy other than a few basic nuggets of info. We of all people should not over-react. We learned that lesson, right? Let the story play out. If circumstances are such that righteous indignation is warranted based on FACTS, I’m all for it – at least in a respectful sort of way.

The last thing we need is to disgrace ourselves. Don’t let you emotions get the better of you. Two months ago, none of us ever considered the potential existed to lose something we hold so dear. The uncertainty and the hurt are real and justified, but that doesn’t mean we need to lose control.

If BOB has any sort of talent, and he is surrounded by a solid staff, still TBD, he has a chance. What will make odds of success much, much higher is if we rally around our school instead of over-reacting and getting horrible publicity. People and recruits need to know this is a wonderful school (in spite of our administration).

So let me get this straight

the BoT and Search Committe take a steaming dump on the table.

But I can’t complain about it, because they put a PSU pennant next to the turd, and therefore I’m not giving said turd enough of a chance because he’s our turd?

Just making sure I have this right.

Ha ha ha

No.

The search committee put a box on the table. It smells like a turd, so you’re assuming it’s a turd and making judgments about it before you open it.

ah, the famous thought experiment

schrodingers turd. A classic.

Lol

I think this whole coaching search has been a Schrodinger’s Turd.

I really hope it’s not a turd.

For a moment it is both a turd and not a turd at the same time

Mind = blown.

Rogue Nine - January 6, 2012 reply

I don't think that many people are angry with O'Brien for taking the job

Hell, I’ve taken jobs that I was probably less than fully qualified for. We hate that this process brought us to this point, that he doesn’t view PSU as a destination job and that he will not assume control immediately.

The idea that we can’t complain about the hire is to stupid to be acknowledged.

Agreed. I have no crystal ball indicating how this will turn out.

Maybe he’ll be great. Maybe he’ll leave in 2 years for an NFL offer.

I’m just furious at the process used to come to this conclusion. I’m furious that the best we can come up with is someone we can all agree is an unknown quanitty.