You have a Top 20 Women's team taking on tOSU for the league lead and yet there is no coverage here on this Penn State Sports site.
Over at Rocky Top Talk we have a game preliminary post, a long game thread, and a wrap up post for every Lady Vols Game - and we're in the South. I'm just a little surprised that a site in Pennsylvania wouldn't cover a Penn State team that's doing a great job representing the school.
If this is a sore subject or if I've overstepped my bounds by asking I will be happy to delete this but it seems to me some of you would enjoy covering the women in their quest to win the B1G and show up in the NCAA.
The game is currently on ESPN2 in HD and PSU is in the lead and playing well.
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0 recs | 165 comments
The Lady Lions are leading 26 to 17 with 10 to go in the first half
We Lady Vol fans have a strong dislike for Coach Foster of tOSU so I’m sure the Lady Lions are getting some support from Lady Vol fans.
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Because Tenn is no longer relevant in any other sport?
rugbyrowe - February 20, 2012
Relevant or not we still cover the men's sports on RTT
but we’ve always been relevant in WCBB and PSU was for most of the sports history
Now it appears the new coach has them being relevant again.
So that would not answer the question why the sport get’s no coverage here
Lady LIons up by 7 with 7 Min left in the first half
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Not cool
It was a good, honest question. Sorry if that was just friendly sarcasm,then I take my comment back.
STU Boy - February 20, 2012
haha.... exactly what i was thinking....
Thats like saying…. hey Tennessee…. why don’t you have coverage of your wrestling team?
PSULion29 - February 21, 2012
Welp
UT has one of the premiere WCBB programs in the nation, with all of the prestige that goes along with the legendary Pat Summitt. There is a following and a culture in Knoxville. But Penn State…the ladies have done relatively well, but basketball in general has always had a steep hill to climb in State College.
Let me put it this way…does Rocky Top Talk cover women’s volleyball the way they cover basketball? BSD highlights the hell out of PSUs stellar volleyball team. Each blog naturally covers the most prestigious and successful teams, and women’s hoops just isn’t one that moves the needle for PSU’s fanbase.
06Lion - February 20, 2012
That makes sense
There is some minimal coverage of the ‘lesser’ sports like vollyball but they do cover the softball team on a regular basis. And of course we don’t have hockey or wrestling that seem to be a big deal here.
That makes sense to me – thanks for the answer.
aurabass - February 20, 2012
It is a good thing anytime a PSU team beats tOSU in any sport. right?
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Anytime tOSU loses it's a good thing. When it's to us, it's a wonderful thing.
Succss With Honor Always - February 20, 2012
Well that's something we are in total agreement on
aurabass - February 20, 2012
You bet and it was a dramatic win. LOVED SEEING PSU GET THE TROPHY.
Just think, the gals pulled this off with only 3 bench players. Marisa has been out for several games. I didn’t hear what happened with Ariel but she wasn’t in uniform either.
I don’t mind if BSD doesn’t want to make a big deal but the gals could at least get a mention when they win. Considering big write ups about the men and they lose (quite a bit this year).
be4time - February 20, 2012
WHY AM I THE FIRST TO REC THIS?
ckmneon - February 21, 2012
12 ranked Lady Lions whipping the 9th ranked tOSU by 15
at the half
aurabass - February 20, 2012
This game is of local interest here at UT
because a loss by tOSU would likely improve The Lady Vols NCAA seeding
aurabass - February 20, 2012
This is why fanposts are created
So we can talk about these sorts of things. But the Lady Lions are awsome, Coquese really has this team playing to a high degree, and can make some serious noise in the near future.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Precisely.
We can’t cover everything, all the time. If you guys want to talk about something we’re not covering, use the FanPosts. It’s not that we don’t care about the Lions. It’s simply that we’re already stretched kinda thin. And what Chris said below re: interest vs. effort.
Jeff Junstrom - February 20, 2012
Because it's hard enough to whip up interest in the men's team.
No offense to the ladies, but there’s an effort-to-response ratio involved.
Chris Grovich - February 20, 2012
I understand
success will breed more interest and the Lady Lions are having some success now
so maybe the effort to response equation will start to shift as that continues
Winning the B1G will be a good start I think
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Actually It's always been that way...
I went to twice as many women’s games as mens…because they can play.
87Townie - February 20, 2012
interest
I honestly have much more interest in our womens team than I do the mens. I did go a high school where our boys team was always terrible and the girls usually made it to the quarters or semis in the state tourney, this could explain my bias. I also don’t particularly like basketball all that much so my interest level wouldn’t be terribly high even if our mens program was elite.
biscoiv - February 20, 2012 via Android app
Although this *is* quite the ass-whipping.
They’re up 17 with about 16 minutes left.
Chris Grovich - February 20, 2012
Let's hold that tongue
Still alot of game to play, OSU is still a good team, so can make a run here. If green gets into more foul trouble we will have a problem, but she has been playing well so far tongiht. Completely owning the paint on both ends.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Bentley seems to be the only Lady Lion in foul trouble with 3
let’s hope that holds out
Beach has 4 and Samantha 2 for tOSU
aurabass - February 20, 2012
That's 2 on Green now?
and she takes a break
aurabass - February 20, 2012
She has been having foul trouble all year
Which is good to see her stay out of it tonight. Need to keep that up by her, since she is great down low.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Nikki is probably beat tonight. Deserves a good rest.
25 points was spectacular. She played more minutes than she usually gets because of the fouls.
be4time - February 20, 2012
Lady Lions looking good tonight
James - February 20, 2012
Really attacking OSU
Don’t think they were expecting that from us tonight, those first like 10 minutes they were out of whack. Hopefully we can keep up the pressure on them.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Hey guys
James - February 20, 2012
I didn't
Please elaborate.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Don't worry
I have more inside info on Colella. He also used to play at a branch campus.
James - February 20, 2012
Really?
Which.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
PSU Behrend
They have historically been a very good Division III team. I played against them every year in a non-conference game and it was always a tough one.
PSUfanDuff - February 20, 2012 via mobile
Prahalis has a reputation as a drama queen
aurabass - February 20, 2012
PSU out rebounding tOSU 41 to 21
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Thanks Aurabass!
My folks are at the game…but I have no access to it.
87Townie - February 20, 2012
No problem Townie
4 fouls on Bentley now
Playing a little ragged now
Prahalis gets her 3rd foul
aurabass - February 20, 2012
BOOM - 20 point lead with that dagger
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Maggie Lucas
Not having the best game shooting, only 1-12, but is driving and getting fouled, which is helping out alot. Thankfully we don’t need her right now, to take over a game like she has done before.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
She seems to be pressing and trying to do too much
4 fouls on Stokes for tOSU now
aurabass - February 20, 2012
I think her poor shooting
And the defensive pressure on her is frustrating her, so she is putting up bad shoots.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Gray with a 3 point dagger as the clock runs down
21 point lead
aurabass - February 20, 2012
So how bout the fencing teams?
Men’s and women’s both ranked #1. Talk about a dominant sport not covered. That’s about all I know though.
Succss With Honor Always - February 20, 2012
Is that picket or chain link?
aurabass - February 20, 2012
We have a world class fencing team
Have like 20 national titles or soemthing sick. Just missed another last year, shoudl contend again this year. A few go to the olympics as well.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Apparently our coach has been with the team for 28 years.
He needs some serious appreciation.
Succss With Honor Always - February 20, 2012
Emmanuil G. Kaidanov
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
That is absolute domination.
This is why being a Penn Stater is so amazing. There is such amazing success everywhere across the university, in athletics and in research labs. It’s just amazing that something that successful can go unnoticed. I know that fencing isn’t a popular sport (I know nothing about it) but to be in the top 4 in the county for 20+ straight years is unbelievable.
Succss With Honor Always - February 20, 2012
Well
There are only like 5 teams…
(sarcasm font? Maybe?)
psume06 - February 21, 2012 via mobile
All my student friends know that the fencing team is boss.
Though my friends are pretty into sports. They get a lot of respect from us, though. It’s crazy what they do.
Their Michael Jackson performance at THON was pretty awesome, too.
dwf5095 - February 20, 2012
We have so many long tenured coaches at PSU...
Kyle_Martin - February 22, 2012
Picket.
We keep it classy around here.
Succss With Honor Always - February 20, 2012
It's all split rail down here in Tennessee
aurabass - February 20, 2012
They did a pretty good dance at the Thon pep rally
But that’s the extent of my knowledge of them. I think a lot of it comes down to people like me knowing absolutely nothing about fencing,
ppfcpp - February 20, 2012
I'm disappointed
That no one has posted that one photo of the female fencers from a few years ago.
06Lion - February 20, 2012
I think that was Jtot
letsgopsu - February 20, 2012
22 point lead at the under 5 mark
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Nice video of the THON marathon
aurabass - February 20, 2012
I've come to think of our basketball programs, when compared to other programs, like this:
We give coverage to our WVB & Wrestling like you do to to your MBB & WBB (Well, comments wise, not articles wise). There’s a lot of interest in the mens, but until the mens gets on a higher level the interest won’t be there for women’s basketball.
Call me sexist or whatever, but people didn’t even pay much attention to the WVB program until the mens won an NCAA title. The more successful the mens is, the more people will pay attention to the women’s counterpart. At least that’s how I’ve come to identify it as. Either that, or if the women’s makes some huge run.
I did pass by the BJC earlier today and there a lot of cars parked outside of it. So there should be some people there
ICEICETHATGUY13 - February 20, 2012
>Sees wrestling recap
>10 comments
well at least the in game match thingy games get comments
ICEICETHATGUY13 - February 20, 2012
I tend to agree with you
Except for the volleyball, I think the women’s gained more attention, then gave some to the men. I mean right now our men;s team is on a tear, beating 2 top 5 teams already. But how many know about that on this site or elsewhere in Nittany Nation? But if the women did that, everyone would hear that, since they are even more awesome.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Maybe why they charge admission for Women's VB & not the mens.
be4time - February 20, 2012
TBH most of my friends and I cared a lot more about WVB than MVB
while we were students. Granted we got to watch The Team for four years and saw 3 NCs… but it was still more exciting to watch the women than the men play.
Kyle_Martin - February 22, 2012
The men won a national championship
when I was in undergrad.
Paige2PSU - February 22, 2012
First V-Ball sweep by eastern school
Ever that year.
Then last year they choked at home to OSU. Was a pitiful game, were so out of synch, hard to watch actually.
AriesGD - February 22, 2012
It is also of note
That you will see a lot more womens games on tv than mens. So far this year I haven’t been able to catch 1 men’s v-ball game on any network. And you really won’t until the tourney comes around.
AriesGD - February 22, 2012
with title 9
a lot of men’s vball teams have been cut, I believe to the point that there isn’t even a full top 25 of mens teams. the Big Ten doesn’t even have a league, and I think the NCAA tourney for the men aren’t even at half the number of teams as women. The league we’re in gets an automatic by into at least the quarterfinals of the NCAAs, IIRC
Cari Greene - February 22, 2012
The tourney works as such
Each league has basically 1 team go to the national tourney. So every year there is a final four then the title game. You win the division, you go to the Final Four, then a title game. There are alot of school that have v-ball teams, just not as many as the women’s side who can have a full 64 team tourney for the title.
FYI, Penn State has participated in 6 title matches, lost 4 won 2, most recent 2008.
AriesGD - February 22, 2012
I couldn't remember if the league champ
went to the semis (final four) or quarters
thanks.
And I specifically remember the 2008 win, because it was sandwiched between the first two of our four straight women’s wins. And SI still didn’t mention that we won literally three volleyball titles (of both genders) in a row. Chumps.
Cari Greene - February 22, 2012
Yeah the conference tourney
Is like the semi’s, but the official is only the 4 conference champs.
I think Penn State has been to all recognized NCAA Final Fours, like 20 in a row or something, I might be off on that, but pretty sure we have not lost the conference title in like 20-25 years.
AriesGD - February 22, 2012
Women's volleyball is better overall
The men’s team is generally excellent, yes, but there are a couple of big problems with men’s vb as a sport that aren’t PSU’s fault.
1) Not enough teams, especially in the east. PSU is totally dominant in the east and always has been. They’ve almost never lost and the teams we play are schools like Rutgers-Newark that we don’t play in anything else so they don’t generate much buzz. The only team we play regularly that anyone really can get worked up about is Ohio State.
So after some early season matches against other top teams and before the final four (the NCAA MVB tournament is only four teams) It’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that PSU will win and if they don’t, it would mean they’ve really gotten a lot worse and nobody wants to see that either.
So PSU is all but assured a spot in the final four, which is always the best in the east, the best in the midwest (usually Ohio State or Lewis, a DII school that is allowed to do vb in D1) and then two teams from the west. One weekend of play.
By contrast, because of Title IX and some other factors, almost every school has a women’s VB team and it’s a very competitive sport in the Big10, so when the women win the league or the NCAA it’s the result of a long march to the top of a very big heap. Way more build-up and drama.
2) The game itself is less interesting. The guys can hit it so hard and they can get so high that the points don’t last long. Also, every serve either comes in hot or just hits the net. They can’t risk laying in in their safely like the women can. So a lot of boring faults. The men’s athleticism and the speed at which they can hit it is unbelievable, but it lacks the ebb and flow of the women’s game.
I don’t know how to fix it, but I think men’s volleyball is a sport that could benefit from some kind of special status operating outside the NCAA. There are a number of men’s university teams in Canada and it’s relatively popular in some other countries. It would be cool if the elite teams like PSU could somehow stop playing the Mt Olives of the world and play an international schedule or, at least, go from the NCAA championships on to some kind of all Pan American championship.
The men’s volleyball talent is much more heavily concentrated in California than the women’s volleyball talent. Girls VB is played just about everywhere but only a few states sponsor boys volleyball. Pennsylvania happens to be one. PSU was the first non-California school to win the men’s title. So in some ways, the PSU men’s two NCAA titles is just as impressive as the women’s five because they’re at a bigger recruiting disadvantage, but it’s mostly and apples to oranges comparison.
The relative popularity of boy’s vb in PA has, oddly, a lot to do with the Mennonites and the Amish. It’s a very popular game in their community because it’s easy to set up and it’s scalable to different size groups. From there, it spread out to the rest of the population and then became a PIAA sport in the 60s or 70s, as I recall reading. Not coincidentally, PSU gets a lot of its better players from around Lancaster.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
#2 is what resonates with me, and why I can't get into it.
It’s like a cartoon / video game.
Chris Grovich - February 24, 2012
Actually,
I know a lot of people who only watch WVB, for the same reason that no one cares about men’s beach volleyball.
dbl5030 - February 23, 2012
I bet it has nothing to do
do with the hotshorts.
rahpsu92 - February 24, 2012
I wouldn't think
that such a small amount of fabric would keep someone warm, let alone make them hot…but who am I to argue with magic?
PSUGuru - February 24, 2012
29 offensive rebounds for the Penn State women.
Are you kidding me?
CvilleLion - February 20, 2012
They killed tOSU on the glass
aurabass - February 20, 2012
I think at one point
The entire rebound differnce was double, 50-25. That was with like 3 minutes left to play. We totally dominated the boards all game.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Rebounding and Defense win championships
aurabass - February 20, 2012
And we can score at will at times
Even when our best shooter, Maggie Lucas, has an off night.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Sure did.
That was impressive.
CvilleLion - February 20, 2012
Well this win should give PSU the B1G regulars season championship
with only Minnesota at home to go
That win at Purdue was huge along with this drubbing of tOSU
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Great great win for the Lady Lions
Such a great win, and at home.
Coquese is building something special here.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Coquese has done a great job in State College
aurabass - February 20, 2012
1st B1G Championship for PSU in 8 years
The Lady Lions are back – Congratulations
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Look out Lady Vols, here comes the Lady Lions
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Yes it looks like the Lady Vols are in for some lean times
and an imminent coaching change due to Pat’s illness
aurabass - February 20, 2012
I don't think we will challenge them
Real shame to see Pat ill, she is a tough lady and very much respected. Just hope the end for her is peaceful and not public, since it can not be pretty.
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Thanks Aries
It’s been a struggle this year with coaching by committee
It just doesn’t work
I’m hoping to see Nikki Caldwell now at LSU in Knoxville next year or the year after.
She’s cut from the same cloth as Pat and Coquese
aurabass - February 20, 2012
My coaching Mt. Rushmore
Is Paterno, Dean Smith, Pat Summit and, on a rotating basis so probably not appropriate for carving into a mountain, the last coach to beat tO$U.
kijana's acl - February 20, 2012
What about replacing the rotating coach with the coach of the team
that punched tOSU in the face in the early 1900s?
PSUinBOSSton - February 20, 2012
I like your list
But would add, Coach K, or Bob Knight for the men’s b-ball
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Bob Knight's a bully
My list is of great coaches and human beings. Each of them could be prickly, but none were known to pick on secretaries or people who couldn’t fight back.
Since I adore Smith, I cannot have K. Plus, he looks like a rat.
kijana's acl - February 20, 2012
This (short) man and his 4 corners had me pulling my hair out!
ComfortHePuHuTh - February 20, 2012
meaner than a Catholic nun
WorldBFat - February 21, 2012
How does that compare to a Jewish nun?
leeharvey418 - February 21, 2012
Ask someone who survived Jewish elementary school.
WorldBFat - February 21, 2012
I might sub Wooden for Smith
but otherwise we concur
aurabass - February 20, 2012
I like Wooden
but it is well documented that he got the best players because Sam Gilbert had deep pockets (but no tats). Still a great coach and, by all accounts, a great man, but Smith did it without the taint, so he gets the nod from me.
kijana's acl - February 20, 2012
obligatory
umm….TWSS!
afields16 - February 21, 2012
I was on hour 14 of a 17.5 hour day
but, yeah, walked right into that one.
kijana's acl - February 21, 2012
brutal
afields16 - February 28, 2012
All five starters scored 10 or more
with 3 having double doubles.
Great team effort
aurabass - February 20, 2012
Thanks AB.
That’s what’s so great about BSD, contributors aren’t afraid to bring attention to these events. Your effort is appreciated. I didn’t catch as much of the game as I wanted, when I turned it on it was already in the bag.
PSUinBOSSton - February 20, 2012
And seriously, people.
If you want to take it upon yourselves to cover a sport that we don’t concentrate on: DO IT. If it’s well-written, we’ll help promote it. Whether it’s WBB, baseball, softball, men’s volleyball, lacrosse, soccer…if you like it, own it and we’ll do what we can to assist.
Chris Grovich - February 20, 2012
Will you pay us in booze and blow?
AriesGD - February 20, 2012
Booze and hookers for me.
TheSwish - February 20, 2012
Is there a woman's wrestling team?
Pentimental - February 20, 2012
I agree 100%.
Just one thing, though. Can you at least start an open thread for these games? There doesn’t have to be a writeup for it at all, just something to remind people that there is a game on.
TheSwish - February 20, 2012
Timing
PSU WBB has not been very good for a few years. Had this site been around during Portland’s glory years, it’d likely have done more coverage.
M1EK - February 20, 2012 via Android app
Lady Lions are the 2012 Big Ten Champions!
ComfortHePuHuTh - February 20, 2012
FYI #2 not playing yet-transfer; #15 off this season for personal reasons.
be4time - February 20, 2012
On the 26th cheer on Nebraska when they take on tOSU. (Unless MN takes them out on 23rd.)
We just to have to get by MN to sweep end of season.
be4time - February 20, 2012
BSD doesn't cover women's hoops for the same reason I don't watch
it sucks. Sorry if that hurts feelings. (not really sorry.)
spakajewia - February 21, 2012
Well according to Chris and Jeff that's the wrong answer
and all things are relative.
The women may be vertically challenged and not as airborne as the men
but they do have skills and typically play pretty good fundamental basketball
Enjoyment is in the eye and mind of the beholder and the ladies put in the same practice and effort
and they do it without much future in financial reward as student athletes that graduate and do honor to their alma maters. – That’s enough to deserve support
aurabass - February 21, 2012
I agree with you Aurabass
Considering we are covering 16-17 year old high school football players and whether they will come to PSU to play (and we all know many of them won’t), I agree that WBB is much more worthy of coverage especially since they are playing so well.
OLDLIONofNYC - February 21, 2012
Aura
Chris answered your question — I just wanted to add a bit of explanatory info about the “other” sports here in Happy Valley, and my opinion as to why the effort-to-response ratio results in the responses it does.
Being a Knoxville soul you are familiar with being isolated from another city of any size — 160 miles to Chattanooga (I know it’s smaller than Knox, but it’s big to us), 180 miles to Nashville, 210 to ATL. For us Pittsburgh is 140 miles (and a good bit of that is not 4-lane highway!); Baltimore is 170 and Philly is 190. However, Knoxville itself has 179,000 people and Knox County has 432,000 – so you have a good population base to start. State College only has 42,000 people and Centre County only has 154,000 – and Centre County is over 1,100 square miles, twice the size of Knox County. In other words, UT has a built-in fanbase 3 times as large as PSU does – in half the space. Now, for the 7-8 home football games a year, PSU fans from miles away are willing to make 3, 4, 5 hour drives to tailgate, watch a 3-hour game, tailgate some more, and make a day of it. (And keep in mind – when the football stadium is full, it is the 3rd largest city in the state!). The point is: we are isolated and there are not a lot of us here to begin with. I’ve been throughout SEC-land and can’t think of a comparable place – Tuscaloosa, Gainesville, Athens,… all are larger and much closer to population centers. In fact, although I haven’t been all around the country, of the many parts I’ve been to I can’t think of another major state university (40,000+ students) with a world-class athletics program that is as isolated as Happy Valley. Heck, we still don’t have an ABC, CBS, NBC or FOX TV station based here.
So what does that have to do with BSD coverage? Well, as Chris noted, it’s an effort-to-response model. PSU fans are willing to drive and make an entire day for football – there are only so many games a year. But for all the other sports: basketball, wrestling, volleyball, soccer, hockey, baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, softball, swimming, tennis, track, etc., unless you are an absolute diehard, the fans who attend the games/matches live within the county. Consequently, when over 5,000 fans show up for a woman’s basketball game, that’s the "turnout" equivalent of 14,000 people showing up for the Lady Vols in Thompson-Boling Arena. And when we sell-out a 6,000-seat gym for a season of wrestling matches, or get 4,000 people for women’s volleyball matches, well, think of the comparison at UT and you get the idea.
However, from a sheer number standpoint, it’s still only 5,000 fans at a women’s b-ball game. And maybe a bit more (or less) for the men. The football team just has such a huge numerical disparity in terms of the people who "follow" it, that the effort-to-response ratio in coverage is skewed heavily to football because the "fanbase" for the other sports just simply isn’t that big. The numbers aren’t there. I mean, PSU has more NCAA national titles over the last decade than any other BigTen school, but who would know. If it’s not pedophilia, we can’t get the media up here!
Smee - February 21, 2012
FTTY
AriesGD - February 21, 2012
Smee - we have had a drop off in WBB attendance. 5K was the best all season I think.
Not disagreeing with the BSD and your premise. We’re getting the best PR for a while due to the winning season and maybe a chance to take the conference tournament, too. So, will take whatever advantage that brings. Only the “pink” game will outdo it (5K) ‘cause of all the promotions each year & some cut rates. I think it was Nebraska that had about 7.7K when we played there. PUR avg 8.5K, MSU avg 7.5K and we’re at 3.4K which ranks 7th in the conference. You think it bad here, but some women’s programs rarely get more than 1-2K.
We used to be about 3rd or 4th. I have season tickets so have gone to most of the home games over a number of years. My friends & I have commented on the lower turnouts. Can’t give you chapter and verse, but before the coaching change 5 years ago, & we had some good teams, 7-8K weren’t that unusual. Yesterday’s game was the best student turnout all season, too. I like the student action at the WVB games. That’s been lacking with Lady Lions the past few years for whatever reason. Anyhow, I’m just glad for the team to get some recognition for their hard work this year.
be4time - February 21, 2012
Regarding "effort to response".
Mike’s written a few WBB posts in the past, and they get next to no comments. That’s a sign that the readers don’t give a damn, and we’re not going to spend our time (we have jobs and families and such) on things you guys don’t care about.
But if someone wants to pick up the torch and be the unofficial WBB writer (or any other sport) in the Fanposts, we’ll do what we can to promote it.
Chris Grovich - February 22, 2012
All you have to do is write the WBB posts in such a way that they are likely to generate tangents.
WorldBFat - February 22, 2012
Have M1EK do it.
500 comments a post, guaranteed.
jesse. - February 22, 2012
I can try to write about men's lacrosse and baseball some more, if anyone cares...
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
We ask because we care.
Seriously. If you want to provide updates, please.
Chris Grovich - February 24, 2012
I'll see what I can do
reedjohnmiller - February 24, 2012
Don't forget that all our football games are on weekends.
That helps allow for travel. Anything held on a weeknight prevents pretty much anyone outside of Centre Country from being able to make it without taking off of work. Also, take into account weather. Weather during football, especially the beginning of the season is typically warm which allows you to make a day out of being outside. You can tailgate, go downtown, walk around campus, or do whatever else you like. When it’s cold and miserable, you don’t really want to be outside very long, so you’re less likely to do those things. Although I’m always down for a good tailgate no matter what the weather conditions are. Bring a turkey fryer and that’ll keep you warm enough to not get hypothermia while drinking and make a delicious meal at the same time.
Succss With Honor Always - February 22, 2012
One of the nice things about the internet and increased TV coverage
is the ability to create and online fanbase that watches the games while sharing the experience online in a game thread.
I quit attending games at TBA 3 years ago because the cost of parking, tickets, time, refreshments, comfort, cold, no smoking areas, and other distractions made it more enjoyable to sit on my couch in front of a 60 inch screen and be on top of the action while conversing with fellow fans online.
There are 4 sites Rivals, Scout, SB Nation, and a rogue site called OuterMonVOLia that feature game threads during Lady Vol games. These were developed over time.
PSU WCBB fans can likely be found spread out across the country and with ESPN 3 or other streaming sites it’s likely that most games can be viewed in real time via the net even if they are not broadcast nationally on television.
this makes the size of the community that attends the games less relevant to the interest that can be developed for an online community of fans who incur no additional cost or effort for viewing a game and commenting in real time as we did in this thread.
It would likely take some time – a few years perhaps – to build up enough of a following to make it a typical game day experience but the sport does have fans and they can be attracted to that kind of effort. BSD seems to be far more successful at attracting visits than Rocky Top Talk. This is a very popular site when certain fanposts can garner 4 or 5 hundred responses.
To me the effort is fairly minimal. A short main page blurb about the upcoming game posted in the AM to remind fans. A game thread set up for each game and a wrap up post following the game. None of this has to require much time or effort. Quote and link the student newspaper or local State College sports page. Post an image of the stats and add a sentence or two about a key player.
A typical game thread on Rocky Top Talk like this for the UT vs UK game draws around 200 comments in competition with The SUmmiTT on Scout that has a long history of covering the Lady Vols with some 205 thousand posts on 22 thousand topics over the past few years. It takes some time to build a following but given the recent success of your WCBB team it would seem that this would be a good time to start with the B1G Championship.
aurabass - February 22, 2012
TV
I think one of the four networks – the ABC one, maybe -is now mostly based in State College. I could be mistaken.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
Stations
WWCP – FOX 8: Based and main studios are in Johnstown; has satellite offices in Altoona & State College.
WATM – ABC 23: Same management group and offices as WWCP-FOX.
WTAJ – CBS 10: Based and main studios are in Altoona; has satellite offices in DuBois, Johnstown & State College.
WJAC – NBC 6: Based and main studios are in Johnstown; has satellite offices in Altoona, DuBoois & State College.
Smee - February 23, 2012
WATM
That’s what I was thinking of. I thought they were based here.
Certainly, there’s a lot more coverage of State College locally than there was in the past.
And in the not too distant past, our ABC affiliate was out of Wilkes-Barre, which was like another planet. They showed a lot of polka, as I recall. And Hatchy-Milatchy.
reedjohnmiller - February 24, 2012
Great point
I’ve always thought that was a key reason why basketball struggles here. It’s just very hard to generate a non-Saturday audience.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
Great post!
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
sorry, I wasn't trying to complement myself there. I can't get used to this format.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
Do you think the Rene Portland episode
reduced interest in Women’s basketball at PSU?
Was there any general consensus about her treatment of players based on their perceived sexuality?
aurabass - February 22, 2012
I don't know about anyone else
but I had no inkling that it was going on until she got fired. I wasn’t a huge fan of WBB, but I did attend some games,
Cari Greene - February 22, 2012
I think Rene leaving the way she did had an effect
I was a student in ‘80 when Rene was hired (by JoePa during his short stint as AD & HC). And I moved back in late 2005 during the end of her reign. Rene was women’s b-ball. You walked around town, went to the grocery store, wherever, and saw Rene, it was “Rene! Way to go – good job!”. She was Pat Summitt in a smaller market. She had success on the court too — lots of NCAA tourney visits. My kids really enjoyed her “Rene’s Dunkers” kids club — when Rene went in or out of the locker room she high-fived and slapped palms with the kids in their special section. When Coquease came they tried to switch that to the “Washington’s Whoopsters” kids club but you could tell she didn’t get it — didn’t interact with the kids, didn’t recognize them, whatever. My kids lost interest pretty quickly and it appeared many others did as well. She was focused on what she saw as being important. And within a year or two they bagged it and rolled it into the NLC kids club.
So Rene had a lot of fans — supportive fans — and many were dismayed at the way she was cast aside. The bubble sort of burst. I think Coquease can win that back if her teams start a history of positive results on the court — which will allow her to also form her her own “persona” around town. Though at this point I don’t see it yet.
Smee - February 22, 2012
Sorry
damn head cold.
Smee - February 22, 2012
There are lots of kids and blue hairs that attend WCBB games at UT
and the games have a circus atmosphere
with kids competitions at halftime – two teams of 25 try to put a massive airfilled ball in a huge net at center court
or racing down the court to fine their sneakers, put them on and race back
or the first to hit a lay up out of 6 small contestants.
They have to do a lot to make it fun for kids to keep up the attendance
aurabass - February 22, 2012
Could also be because Washington's Whoopsters is an awful name.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
On the other hand,
“Washington’s Whoop-assters” gets my vote!
PSU_Lions_84 - February 23, 2012
I was in the basketball pep band 89-(fall of)92
hence went to about half the home games (if not more); and even then, it was the scuttlebutt that she treated lesbians and perceived lesbians very badly.
M1EK - February 22, 2012
Her attitude toward lesbians was a known fact in State College...
For as as long as I can remember. Until about the late 1990’s many people agreed with her. Times change, but her attitude toward lesbians was no secret.
jesse. - February 22, 2012
Known fact.
It was a recruiting tool for most of her tenure.
Smee - February 22, 2012
This is the quote.
It is from the Chicago Sun Times in 1986. So it’s not like this was a nebulous rumor. It was stated policy. It wasn’t even against Penn State’s anti-discrimination policy until 1991. But this opinion was not that far (if at all) outside of the political mainstream at the time.
jesse. - February 22, 2012
Once Pat got divorced
and with two long time assistants Demoss and Warlick – it was rumored and sometimes confirmed that a certain male coach in New England used the dreaded L word to sway certain recruits from UT. So the entire issue had been used in recruiting wars for some time.
Pat recruits many out spoken Christian players like home schooled Taber Spani on the current team so the attack on her did not work well.
Nikki Caldwell – former UT player and assistant – now at LSU is having a child out of wedlock and she is the 2nd coach after the Pokey Chatman situation.
There seems to be a lot of flack around the issue of marriage, relationships, and the female coaches in WCBB. Tara Vandevere at Stanford for instance, but Rene seemed to gather some serious ill will for her perceived treatment of players. I couldn’t fathom why any would attend PSU unless they could handle a certain amount of homophobia and bashing from someone who seemed santorumish in their views on same sex relationships.
aurabass - February 22, 2012
Hey look...
Once upon a time, a time not that long ago, you were allowed to openly hate homosexuals with pretty much no negative consequences. Rene was part of basically the first women’s college teams in the history of the sport, and I imagine that the rules regarding homosexuality at Immaculata College were pretty strict. I think the rule started off as way to make it easier for straight women to start playing sports without the fear that they would be called gay while they were doing it. That doesn’t make it right, it just is what it is.
I think the team started to slide when as people started getting more and more progressive toward homosexuality, Rene didn’t. My guess is that after awhile, less and less players wanted to play for Penn State because they feared that they would be seen as bigots.
jesse. - February 22, 2012
That makes sense and likely aptly describes the situation
aurabass - February 22, 2012
Thought
Could be the reason her character doesn’t show up anywhere in the movie The Mighty Macs.
Smee - February 22, 2012
Fact
The oldest son of Cathy Rush (the coach of that Immaculata team) was my freshman roommate in college. She still had a deal with Nike so he got tons of free stuff.
That’s all I’ve got.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
I've also been told...
that Rene didn’t adapt very well to the growth of women’s basketball and tended to recruit at the same schools and talk to the same HS coaches she always had and that simply wasn’t good enough anymore.
I don’t know if that’s true, but somebody who is way into college basketball at UT and PSU told me that.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
You should start out more posts like this
It’s very Slick Rick meets Star Wars.
jtothep - February 23, 2012
I knew a girl on the team very well when I was there and I have to say...
it was about the only thing I knew about Rene Portland.
Which is not to say there weren’t lesbians on her team… kind of like there weren’t gays in the military.
Times have changed. Most people have to change with them. It appears she didn’t.
To anyone that thinks they don’t know a gay person, please pay attention. You do. The bigotry of others may not make it possible for them to be open about who they are, but they are listening to what you and others say. I have a lot of gay friends I met through my girlfriend working in an industry that lots of gay people work in (hint: it isn’t fashion and it might surprise you). I definitely would not have pegged at least 3/4 of them as being gay because the stereotypes just don’t hold true like everyone likes to think. Especially among people who generally have to hide their sexuality. So before you make a gay joke to someone you assume is playing for your team, you might consider that they aren’t…
BNittsDeMilo - February 22, 2012
my guess:
WorldBFat - February 22, 2012
"Hot stuff coming through!!!"
AriesGD - February 22, 2012
BNitts...is it the financial industry?
Having worked with banks and investment firms I was initially surprised how many gays and lesbians I ran into, a lot more than the average person out there may think.
OLDLIONofNYC - February 22, 2012
That's my recollection of it
Ironically, that girl, whose name escapes me who went to JMU and sued, was not a lesbian. Not that it matters, but it’s just odd that she was the one who really seemed to blow it all wide open.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
She flat out denied being a lesbian.
It’s not like it was an open question.
jesse. - February 23, 2012
The player was Jennifer Harris
and here’s a USA Today article about the lawsuit
A settlement was reached out of court
aurabass - February 23, 2012
Jennifer Harris beef was two things...
1] Total bull shit. The rules she got kicked off the team for were on the books forever. They were not even discriminatory on their face, and she knew about them before she committed to come to Penn State. Oh yea, she was not a lesbian.
2] A long time coming. That was going down sooner or later, her opinions on the matter were too easy to track down.
jesse. - February 22, 2012
cross post
Thanks for filling that in. That is my recollection – that the suit itself wasn’t worth much, but that the publicity shined a spotlight on Rene’s policy and that was very damaging PR-wise.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
If they play like they've been playing lately, make some noise in the NCAA tournament
Then the interest will come back. An upset or two wouldn’t hurt either in the upcoming NCAA tournament. But consistent success will get the fans back, then more coverage on BSD. I think Coquease is doing a good job considering where the program was when Rene left.
OLDLIONofNYC - February 22, 2012
More competition from the men?
My recollection from the pre-BJC era, and certainly the pre-BigTen era, was that it was widely understood that the ceiling was way higher for the women. The women could maybe win a national championship and were even ranked #1 at some point. For the men, “others receiving votes” was a huge deal. So the women were held to a higher standard.
With the women getting bounced a few times too early in the tournament and the men occasionally getting a big win on big TV (like beating UNC in the tournament) the overall feeling seemed to be that the women’s team would only break your heart while the men would often exceed your admittedly low expectations.
That’s a totally unfair way to look at it, but I think that plays into the fan’s willingness to get excited about either team.
But if the women can keep this up and stay at the top of the Big10, I think they’ll start to generate some more buzz.
reedjohnmiller - February 23, 2012
With very few exceptions...
The women have always been much better comparatively. But like it or not, men’s basketball is simply more popular and State College was no exception. That’s not to say that the women’s team did not have a decent following, and have some pretty anticipated games at both Rec Hall and the BJC. But it was always more of a function of everybody has to show up to support the women for this one big game. I don’t think that the women ever drew better than the men, in fact, I think the women probably are hurt attendance wise by the men sucking, because that’s where they would hit their promotions the hardest to get people out to their games.
jesse. - February 23, 2012
Exactly, women's bball just isn't popular enough.
I mean, look at UConn. This is a school that has always been about basketball. Men’s team is always expected to be good, they have many sellouts. They’re basketball crazy up there.
But it took years of ridiculous dominance, rivaling Wooden’s accomplishments at UCLA, for that women’s program to have a large following. And do you think for a second that if the team starts to struggle, they’ll have half their current support? No way.
There’s just no getting around the fact that women’s basketball is an unpopular sport. I did hear the athletic department announce they’ve already sold 12k tickets for Sunday’s Pink Zone game, but that’s because it’s a spectacle and probably the one game during the year anyone would go to.
dbl5030 - February 23, 2012
I wouldn't say "unpopular"
As women’s sports go, it does fairly well. Nationally, it’s by far the most popular college women’s sport is it not?
I really can’t judge the relative merits of the men’s and women’s games since I’m not all that into basketball in general, but my impression is that it is generally less exciting than the men’s game.
Contrast that to the volleyball as I explained above.
reedjohnmiller - February 24, 2012
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