We're doing a lot of bar exercises and free weights and things like that, a lot of squats, a lot of dead lifts," McGloin added. "It's new and it's different, and we're happy about it."Running back Silas Redd said the team is going through the transition phase right now with the new program, which he called "intense."
"We're all excited because the weights [themselves] and the exercises we're doing are a lot more exciting, as well, and we just get amped up and it gets rowdy in there," Redd said.
"We played music before, so I don't think that's it," Redd said of the atmosphere. "There's something about power cleaning and squatting that gets a guy amped up."
Most college coaches will spend tonight pacing in their bedrooms, race to the office at 5 a.m. and spend most of the day Wednesday hunched obsessively over a fax machine, watching as the fruits and disappointments of years of hard work roll in. At Penn State, the new head coach will get to the recruiting stuff when he gets to it. Then again, none of Bill O'Brien's peers is calling plays in the Super Bowl in a few days...
Nothing about this transition is usual, or even precedented. And given the option of preparing for a Super Bowl with your Hall-of-Fame quarterback on one hand, or presiding over a fax machine spitting out the signatures of anonymous kids you've barely had time to meet on the other, well, maybe it puts the whole "signing day" thing in a little perspective.
There's been a lot of HURRR BOB DOESN'T CARE ABOUT RECRUITING AMIRITE? floating around this week. Most of it fails to recognize that Penn State was scrambling to fill this class when O'Brien was hired January 5. PSU had nine or ten scholarships to fill at that point, and had essentially only performed the most rudimentary of recruiting functions since Joe Paterno was fired in early November. And let's face it, the previous coaching staff wasn't exactly reeling in players during the season. There were no commits between Malik Golden (August 24) and Jamil Pollard (December 29).
Bill O'Brien wasn't handed a simple turd sandwich. It was more of a multi-layered turd club sandwich.
Since taking over, he and his coaching staff were able to sign Jordan Lucas, Akeel Lynch, DaQuan Davis, Trevor Williams, Jonathan Warner, Steven Bench, Wendy Laurent, and Evan Schwan. That's pretty good, considering the challenges involved. In the process, they took players from West Virginia (Davis and Williams) and Boston College. They landed a sorely needed running back, and replaced a waffling quarterback commit with one who is just as highly regarded and is enthusiastic about playing at Penn State.
Basically, let's see what BOB and the Bobettes are able to accomplish with a full year to put together a recruiting class. In the meantime, be happy with what Penn State got, because it actually could've been much worse.
BOB talks to the BTN about the class. If you want to see PSU's assistant coaches discuss the class, here's your video. If you'd like me to save you time, fine. Good class. Exciting class. Very athletic. Looking forward to working with them. You know, I really don't know their names. Do I get my own bathroom key, or do I have to keep asking BOB to use the one attached to the 2008 Alamo Bowl trophy?
SHAVE THOSE SIDEBURNS, MATTINGLY. The Montgomery Burns grooming policies of the Paterno era have been relaxed, and other changes are underway as well.
Still, the staff has made some changes. First, O'Brien said, he is installing a new player grading and evaluation system, and all positions are open.
Hixon added that what happened personnel-wise last year, particularly on offense, no longer matters, because "it's going to be a whole new offense." As for players with disciplinary issues, Hixon said, "the doghouse is empty, unless you aren't going to class or doing what you're supposed to do." O'Brien added that he's "not aware at this time" of any players planning to transfer.
O'Brien has relaxed rules regarding facial hair (many players are letting their beards grow) and the wearing of hats inside the Lasch Football Building. Paterno forbade the latter practice. O'Brien allows it, as linebacker Mike Mauti said, partly because "he doesn't have any hair, so he wears a hat."
"It's one more thing where we can say, 'Hey, we can focus on what we're doing and not something else that will distract us from what we're doing,'" Mauti added.
Which, okay. Great. This isn't the military, after all. It's also nice to see this:
The head coach also has been calling players for quick conversations, sometimes to their surprise.
"I was walking across campus, and my phone rang," Hill said. "I looked at the number, didn't know who it was, but I picked it up, and it was coach O'Brien. He was just checking in. I'm glad I got a chance to talk to him. A lot of guys have been missing his calls, because they don't recognize the number."
One more sign of change — and of stability at the same time — are the two new signs hanging from a door at the Lasch Building. Players see them when they enter and leave.
The first says, "WHEN YOU COME HERE," then lists four responsibilities:
1. Know Your Role/Do Your Job
2. Word Hard
3. Be Attentive
4. Always Put the Team First
The second, "WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE," reminds players to do the following:
1. Prioritize Academics and Community Involvement
2. Manage Expectations
3. Don't Believe or Fuel the Hype
4. Speak for Yourself
5. Ignore the Noise
BIELOLMA. Let's face it, if there's one guy in the Big Ten who knows ethics and sportsmanship, it's Bret Bielema. He knows that there's a specific time, place, and protocol for hanging 83 points on a hapless Indiana team. Also, Bret's a guy who would never steal a recruit from another Big Ten school (except, he does, often) and would never bend the rules of play to his advantage.
So when the Moral Compass of Madison complains about Urban Meyer's recruiting practice, well, yeah:
Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema unveiled a 12-player recruiting class Wednesday and was asked whether he had noticed any changes in recruiting in a Big Ten with new coach Urban Meyer now in charge at Ohio State.Turns out, the answer is yes.
"There's a few things that happened early on I made people be aware of that I didn't want to see in this league that I had seen take place at other leagues," Bielema said. "Other recruiting tactics, other recruiting practices that are illegal. I was very up front and was very poignant to the fact. I actually reached out to Coach Meyer and shared my thoughts and concerns with him and the situation got rectified."
Two schools of thought here. One, Bielema is a crybaby and a sore loser, the worst kind of bully who acts tough when putting up 83 points on a hapless Indiana team, but curls up in the fetal position when Urban Meyer does what Urban Meyer does. Two, as OctaShields posited via Twitter, Bielema has a legitimate gripe about something that Meyer did in stealing offensive lineman Kyle Dodson away from Wisconsin on NSD.
Also lodging complaints about Meyer's tactics were Mark Dantonio and Pat Narduzzi of Michigan State. Silent to this point, the most-aggrieved of all, Penn State. And look, this is what Urban Meyer does. Anyone who thought he was going to come into the conference and play nice is a damned fool. If there's time left on the recruiting clock, Meyer is coming after your recruits. Either Fight Meyer With Meyer, band together to negatively recruit against him (the #TeamCollusion theory), or shut up and take it.
ERRATA. Kevin Newsome is off to Temple, and good luck to him. The Super Bowl either means something or nothing to college recruiting.
0 recs | 582 comments
As much as I dislike the facial hair thing,
it’s really nice to hear that BOB is reaching out to the team however he can, especially considering he’s kind of got something big going on this weekend. It’ll be interesting to see how that new strength program manifests itself on the field. I’m excited for the Blue and White game, it should be a lot of fun to watch.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
I don't mind the facial hair thing so much.
This is Pennsylvania, dammit – we wear deer beards around these parts.
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
It's a personal preference, honestly.
I can bullshit about how it’s looking the part or whatever, but you’d all know I was full of it. Growing up, the team my family always had on TV never pulled that beard nonsense and I was thrilled when I got to Penn State and my new team did the same. But I guess something has to keep those Southern recruits warm once they get here.
As long as they don’t get sloppy academically, I’ll live.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
You must not be a fan of playoff hockey.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Nothing is better than a playoff beard
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Doing the law firm thing really hampers my playoff beard growth.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I maintain a groomed goatee
much as i’d love to quit shaving (something i’ve had to do regularly since about the seventh grade) nobody wants a salesman that looks like a sasquatch. However, as a hockey fan (GO BLUESHIRTS), i dig the playoff beard.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
Lets go Flyers.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
re: Winter Classic
smh244 - February 3, 2012
How did the playoff beard thing start?
It’s such a staple now, I’d love to know who actually came up with it.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
criminally underrec'd
Kyle_Martin - February 3, 2012
I'm a crappy Pennsylvania dweller.
Not a hockey fan. I spend most of hockey season waiting for spring training to start.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
I concur
I watch playoff hockey (well the Flyers) and I’ll watch the occasional game if it’s on, but mainly I’m waiting for Pitchers and Catchers to report.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
My friend has been trying to recruit me as a hockey fan by telling me about all the fights
which, as much as I love senseless violence, has yet to be effective, though I did promise to watch more games this year.
The Hot Stove season is so distracting, though. I’m dying to know how all the off season moves work out on the field.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
I like watching olympic hockey better than NHL because of the lack of fights.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
I don't completely understand her enthusiasm for those.
I thought it was a hockey fan thing. When players fight on a football field it just pisses me off- it’s a waste of time and could be a waste of yards. When players fight during a hockey game, aren’t they just wasting valuable time they could spend playing the game everyone is there to watch?
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
wait
She enjoys fighting?
Sounds hot.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I love hockey but not fighting
I don’t mind it so much in the NHL but would like to see it made a game misconduct.
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Shame, Shame.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Yikes.
That looks more like a possum-eating beard.
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
I care more about the hard work in and out of practice
Than I do about facial hair.
misdreavus79 - February 3, 2012
You can't focus during practice if you're constantly stroking your flowing beard.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Squats, deadlifts, and powercleans?
Me gusta. Nice to see the kids enjoy it, too. I imagine this is more along the lines of training they are used to. I just hope they like it in 3 months, when the novelty of change has worn off.
Truck O'Saurus - February 3, 2012 via Android app
i can't believe they weren't doing these things already though
Hell, when I was in HIGH SCHOOL our coaches wanted us doing squats and power cleans to build strength and explosiveness. I understand the philosophy of olympic-style lifting, but I don’t understand how HIT wouldn’t have included these same concepts.
NuclearLion - February 3, 2012
I don't know
I’ve been told by other athlete strength coaches: “If you only do one exercise, squat. If you can do two, squat and deadlift.” I’d imagine all of these players have heard that, too. Hence the excitement.
Truck O'Saurus - February 3, 2012 via Android app
I'm not concerned with "open season" recruiting by Meyer or anyone.
I’m concerned with the oversigning-but-not-really-because-other-players-are-leaving-the-team business. I was under the impression that you have to show the B1G how you’re going to make room for oversigning before the offers go out, and yet Urban Meyer was allowed to announce who will be leaving the program AFTER national signing day.
dbl5030 - February 3, 2012
Yeah
this doesn’t bother me either. But I agree if he’s oversigning then clearly not only is it cheating in a general sense, but also cheating their supposed punishment for their previous infractions. What good is limiting scholarships if you can just load up on talent every year regardless by circumventing the rules?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
The oversigning is ridiculous.
And of course the B1G isn’t going to do anything, despite tOSU being on probation, because they’re too busy having a faux-investigation of Penn State. The NCAA won’t do anything since they don’t punish the schools in the SEC that do it. I think we’re going to need to restructure the B1G divisions soon, making them the Legends and the Cheaters.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
It's pretty easy to see what's going on
Between Urban saying “we’ll announce later that a few guys are going to be off the team” and everyone being cool with it and Urban saying in the press “we don’t redshirt at Ohio State,” it’s abundantly clear how he hopes to approach the scholarship reduction.
Here’s the formula: Use “team rules” violations liberally and schedule some “carefrontations” with guys who aren’t getting playing time, as well as announcing that your entire incoming freshman class is not going to redshirt (putting the writing on the wall for some hapless sophomore that he’ll never see the field), and the scholarship reduction will be entirely covered by roster attrition as opposed to limiting the number of talented incoming recruits. So you still bring in 20-25 highly-touted freshman a year by flushing out 5-6 upperclassmen every year, and viola, you’re still under 82.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Right, you and I see that. Why doesn't the B1G or NCAA?
I’d say that this is in the very least a means of avoiding the punitive sanctions placed on tOSU. That alone should be grounds for action taking place. I’d have a much harder time making the case for this specific instance being a competitive advantage, but it’s still lacking of integrity which is something the NCAA and B1G claim to stand for.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
The BIG stands for that
When is involves teams that are not OSU and Mich. They are their bread and butter, so why mess with what they are doing there. Everyone else has a different stricter set of rules.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
They see it
But it’s not illegal. It’s not expressly against the rules. The part that should be against the rules is the wiggle room re: being above 82 and having a few months to come back down. But other than that, it’s just about ethics, and the conference and NCAA are impotent to do anything about it and Meyer has no incentive to be polite when he can make his team better by pushing the envelope there.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Much like the current tax code,
there is so much moral lattitude in the current structure, the most “creative” types WILL find a way to job the system. Why make a system that could be easy so challenging and riddled with loopholes that it becomes nearly impossible to enfore?
One way to even the playing field is making the numbers strict. Make 85 or even 90 the absolute limit. No greyshirting, no early enrollment counting against prior year’s class. On signing day if you go over 85, then you lose an equal number of scholarships the following year.
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
^^^this guy^^^
Understands incentives.
In the absence of them being concisely defined, we can color the landscape shady or moral til we’re all blue.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Good point
Basically, those we call “unethical” find the actual points that bump against the written rules, and go right up to those limits any way they can. They see it as legal/illegal.
Those we call ethical understand the purpose or spirit of the rules, and usually try to play by that, even if they don’t bump right up against the limit. The best way to level the playing field is to make the limits strict and clear, so both sides get to the same point.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Makes me think of my friend playing NCAA a few years back
he found 1 play on offense (a PA option play or something) that the AI didn’t respond to correctly, which let you easily pick up a 1st down just about every time. It was obviously a flaw or bug in the design of the game and not meant to be played that way, and he would run it almost every time he desperately needed to get a 1st down. I saw him do it and called him on cheating, but he countered with the fact that it was how the game was designed so how can it be cheating? It really depends on how you want to play the game at the end of the day.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
PA WR Cross in NCAA 2007
The X receiver was always open. Always.
Kyle_Martin - February 3, 2012
The AI also did NOT know how to defend the option.
Seriously, I played with Idaho and the QBs speed was rated at 78, and I averaged about 15 yards per carry.
psuwxman - February 3, 2012
Question
This may have gone to the wayside with the influx of new coaches to the B1G over the past several years, but I thought there was a gentlemans agreement between B1G coaches not to poach each others committed recruits? Nothing written in stone obviously, but just a common courtesy thing. I seem to remember RichRod coming in and stealing a couple guys away and people getting pissed. Then it was no holds barred against Dick and Michigan.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Correct
It’s now accepted across the board that you may hold Dick however you wish.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Well I know what I'm doing this weekend
…same thing I do every weekend…sigh.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Pleasure myself, weep, repeat...
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
la dolce vita
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
I have been working
On cutting down on the weeping. Really hard though.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
if really hard, then you better get to work fixing that.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
Trying damnit
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
keep trying, I'm sure something will come up to help you
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
What is this salty discharge
Coming from my eyes?
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Oh my god, you're crying.
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
This never happens to me
This is awful.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
One simple change of directionality in that sentence
greatly affects the situation presented within.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
A good misdirection
When no one is looking can be some good times. I like to have a real good time, every once in awhile.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
misdirection is what got the stuff in his eyes
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
No he has pink eye
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
ewwww
Modanya - February 3, 2012
a "staff" infection?
BMAN13 - February 4, 2012
This is all at the same time, right?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Only when I really get into it.
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
I'm totally trying this.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
I just tweeted the following, not knowing Chris was going to post this...
…but I am on Urban’s side in this Big Ten pissing match. This isn’t Joe, Bo and Woody’s Big Ten. The old Gentleman’s Agreement is dead. If you want to be competitive like the SEC, you have to go after the top talent. And that means that your recruits are fair game until the LOI is signed.
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
If it had been reversed,
and a major scandal broke out at, say, Michigan, and Joe poached their top talent (remember James Ross?), everyone at Penn State would be thrilled, and “U MAD, BRADY?” signs would permeate the PSU message boards.
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
Yea, I don't care about a gentleman's agreement
As was said above, the big deal to me is the “we just signed a class of 27 kids and are going to have 8 kids transfer. We know who they are we just won’t tell you until we sign this class. And no, the kids wanted to transfer, we totally didn’t suggest it to them”
jman07 - February 3, 2012
To be fair...
Every school has the “You might want to consider transferring if you want to play” discussion with players every year. That’s just a fact of life. It turns into total bullshit when/if the school attempts to revoke the scholarships of those kids that elect to remain at the institution.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I guarantee this conversation happens after the 2012 season at Penn State.
Fifth year seniors who haven’t contributed much, if anything, to the team athletically will be quietly asked to move on. It has happened before, it will happen again.
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
I agree, not saying it doesn't and that it shouldn't
I guess my qualms is how it “appears” to be going on at OSU. It just seems shady that they can’t/won’t announce who is leaving, yet. Makes it seem like they don’t know who is transferring because they haven’t determined who they want to get rid of.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
There's nothing nefarious about it. It's just how things are done.
And I promise you it will not be limited to 5th year seniors. Coaches should be honest with their players, both for the program’s sake and the player’s sake. What they should not do is revoke a player’s scholarship if he, knowing he has little-to-no opportunity to play, elects to remain with the program.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
With the new four-year 'ships,
it’ll have to be limited to the fifth-year players.
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
Why?
You are not revoking the scholarship, you are suggesting the kid transfer for playing time. If he leaves on his own volition, you are not on the hook for the scholarship.
Although I have made it clear I am not a fan of the four-year scholarship guarantee, if that’s going to be the lay of the land going forward, I think those that accept the four-year option should not have the option of taking off after three years.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
"Suggesting he transfer"
Now you’re getting into a gray area. I’m talking about asking them to move on with their lives, as they’ve presumably graduated (or are close). urging them to transfer is a different headache.
It would be different if you could change the athletic scholarship to an academic one and let them finish (if they hadn’t already).
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
I don't have a problem asking someone to leave if they graduated.
What I would have a problem with is asking someone to leave/revoking their scholarship before they are able to get a degree.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
This.
At the end of the day this is an academic institution, and denying the opportunity to get a degree goes against literally everything a university should stand for. They are kids in school who play football, not football players in football player school.
There’s an easy paper about objectification in big time college football somewhere. If I play my cards right I could get a few nights at a conference and some free meals out of this.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
Exactly
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I do not see it as a gray area.
So long as you’re not indicating that they no longer have a scholarship.
I see nothing wrong with me saying, “Jeff, we really appreciate your hardwork and everything your bring to the lockerroom, but I want to be honest with you…you are probably not going to see much (if any) playing time here. If that’s important to you at this point, we will help you find a place where you can play. But, you are welcome to remain a part of this program and we would love to have you.”
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis
Peter Gray - February 3, 2012
Yea, that I don't eally have a problem with.
I thought you were talking more about a case where you’d say “Jeff, you’ve been an asset, but you’re probably not going to play. You should probably transfer.”
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
Ha
the difference between what he said and what you said is craftiness. If a coach uses his quote, then completely marginalizes the player by moving his locker, switching him to the scout team or even switching the position he’s working out at…the message is still the same. Let’s not get too technical.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Thats perfectly fine if thats how it goes down
Although, are you handing him brochures to a bunch of D-2 schools while the conversation is going on and winking heavily during “you are welcome to remain a part of this program and we would love to have you”?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
LOL.
This visual made me laugh my ass off.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
“Ska, we are really glad you’re here at Penn State, but have you ever admired the beauty that is Shippensburg’s campus?” ;-)
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
“I hear the women there are incredibly slighly above average. But I bet they put out for football players.”
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
“Go Red Raiders, Ska…go Raiders!”
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
“I dont know if you keep up to date with the latest Big Sky Conference rankings, but you might want to start to.”
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Hahahahaha
“I had a really interesting conversation with the head coach at Sam Houston State last night…he actually brought you up. Have you not always dreamed of visiting Huntsville, Texas?”
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
“The South Central Lousiana State University Mud Dogs are really interested in you. Coach Klien is an offensive guru.”
jman07 - February 3, 2012
The ride to the Ship
up the mountain, down the mountain, across the valley, up the mountain & down the mountain right before you get there, and then back home again toasted my brake pads.
No.21 - February 3, 2012
you need to have the guts not to use your brakes on Timmons Mountain on 641.
Let free wheel and steer hard into the switchbacks.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
And start puckering
when the back end starts to free range.
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
back in ‘81 when I first moved to chambersburg I had a 1968 dodge polara, 383 interceptor with positraction rear. I would power slide through the switch backs. Made the 88 mile run from my house to Briarwood in 1 hr and 15 mins one time. Buried the speedometer a couple times on the way up to SC
/glad I’m still alive
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
A buddy of mine went to Ship
concurrent to my run at PSU. Made that round trip many times, but never with that efficiency.
I took a couple of PSU friends with me to see some band at SHIP. Unfortunately my buddy Tom was the driver. I discovered too late that this guy had a death wish and came close to sealing the deal descending 7 mountains at 115mph. I don’t think he hit the brakes a single time, instead choosing to split the difference between two slower side by side cars. I’ve never been so terrified.
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
Ahh Shippensburg
It existed, and I lived there for awhile.
That is all.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Carlise - State College and back
Driving down the back way instead of 322 and going through Juniata and Perry County is just fun mainly because I drove down the mountain at blaring break neck speeds =D.
Modanya - February 3, 2012
This works if you have built a relationship of trust with your players
and don’t have a reputation for BS. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter what words you use, some college kid that is having his confidence destroyed is going to interpret that as “we don’t want you here”.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Welcome to remain ;-)
No.21 - February 3, 2012
Ok, that didn't work.
Try again.
No.21 - February 3, 2012
What's the difference if someone with a 4 year schollie leaves after 3
or if they just don’t accept the scholarship for their 4th year and leave early? The total scholarships shouldn’t include a player that left just because they were on the 4 year offer.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
'Just how things are done'
Can still be characterized as nefarious. Or however one likes.
Just because you portray it as how things are done (which itself is still more debatable than the pedantic simplicity attempted in its own conveyance) does not mean it is then also devoid of any additional characterization.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
It's not nefarious to tell a player that he is not going to see the field, and that if he wants to play he should look elsewhere.
That’s called honesty. It only becomes nefarious if you tell that kid that he MUST transfer because you are revoking his scholarship.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Which is the action in question here
No problems with “carefrontations” on my end, so long as both parties are in agreement that its the best possible solution.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
It can totally be nefarious
Honesty can be nefarious. These are human conversations with oceans of nuance. People can be deeply shady. Even, or especially, ones who are incentivized insufficiently or conflictingly.
Sure, it can all also be done above board and with integrity. But these conversations are not going to be legislated into simplicity.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
You're also ignoring the part
Where 2 years previous, the coach did everything he could to make sure that particular player came to his school as opposed to the other 10 schools who were recruiting him. Then the kid works his ass off, but doesn’t fit what the coach is looking for and now he’s sitting in the coach’s office. The same coach that fawned over his HS tape and told him that if he came to _ _ U, he’d be given the opportunity to play early and develop and prepare himself for the NFL.
So to pretend it’s not totally loaded when the coach brings a kid into the office to talk about transferring is being intentionally naive. One can say “we’re not going to revoke your scholarship if you intend to stay” and then humiliate the kid by putting him on the scout team as an upperclassmen, switching him from LB to 4th string fullback, basically ignoring his very existence on the practice field and inside the locker room, etc.
I’m a lawyer, and even I see how despicable the technicalities and characterizations are here.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I find it better to be honest with someone than keep them in the dark.
And, as a lawyer, that makes me insane.
Not telling Johnny that he isn’t going to see the field is worse than being honest with him, IMHO.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
But again, it comes to a fine line
do you say “Johnny, look, you’re never going to see a down if you stay here. At best you might be on the practice squad for a whole year.” or “Johnny, you’re not good enough to be the starter now, but if you work hard in this, this, and this, maybe you can see some playing time at some point in the future.” Both ways are telling a kid he’s not going to be starting anytime soon, but one is more in line with what a real coach should be doing, not someone just trying to cut dead weight.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
You have to understand that we're talking about folks that have been around for some time.
A coach is unlikely to give the “If you work hard speech” to a RSJR, 4th-string safety who has had 4 years in the program and 3 years to make his way onto the field.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Again, I understand that
If a guy has his degree (or spent 4 years towards earning a degree), then in my mind the contractual agreement between the school and the student has been fulfiled and he can be “asked to move on” or whatever. I’m talking more along the lines of a soph or jr who perhaps hasn’t lived up to his billing or finds someone else has supplanted him on the depth chart being given the “time to move on” speech. And again, it comes down to a fine line between whats ethical and whats not.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Yeah
particularly when a school is limited to 82 overall scholarships, but not limits on any given year. If 3-4 upperclassmen leave every year, they’re still getting full recruiting classes, and the sanction is entirely flaccid.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
exactly
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
When was your second sentence ever the issue?
In both cases, you’re telling him he isn’t going to see the field. In one, you’re just pretending to not care whether he stays or goes.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
What I mean is
In one instance, you tell the kid he probably won’t see a lot of playing time, but earnestly inform him that you still see him as a productive part of the team and want him to stay.
In the other instance, you tell the kid he won’t see the field and thank him and say all the nice and polite things, but make it abundantly clear he’s wasting his time and is approaching persona non grata. As Dennis said on Always Sunny “it’s the implication”
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
That was one of funniest damn scenes in television
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Nobody has suggested we will (or should) employ #2. I guarantee you have used #1 in the past, and will do so in the future. And with #1 comes the willingness to help that player find another home if playing time is that important to them.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I'm not talking about Penn State
I’m talking about what a lot of other schools do, and what I perceive Urban Meyer is in the midst of doing.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Oh...
Urban’s definitely packing kids’ bags for them.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
See
’You got your black…
And you got your white.’
jtothep - February 3, 2012
But it's not always a technicality.
Some coach could do that, but that doesn’t even make him wrong. If a kid wants to stay a part of the team, a coach can find a way for him to contribute. So what if two years prior the coach told him he’d have an opportunity to play early and develop. If he was given that opportunity and didn’t develop, then the coach should sit down and discuss options with him. If the kid elects to stay, the coach has to find a way for him to be a productive team member. That could be as a member of the scout team or as a fourth string fullback and special teams player.
Someone mentioned earlier that we aren’t in Little League. If there’s a kid who is a younger, better prospect at linebacker, it’s completely logical and not at all immoral to make room for him by shifting a kid to a different position.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
It's called commitment.
The coach asks the player to make a commitment to their school. The school should honor their commitment to that kid. It’s not like the kid can just leave after a year and go play for a team that’s in national championship contention. There are so many rules restricting where, when and how kids can transfer and they are punished for doing that. There are absolutely no repercussions for a coach that decides not to honor the commitment they made to a player.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
That is why it is so important that you are honest when you recruit kids
If you promise them playing time and development into an NFL-caliber player, you’re basically being a politician that says what he/she needs to to get elected. But if you are honest, you tell them they will have the chance to compete, no more, no less. You promise to help them reach their potential as long as they put in the effort on their end, but you don’t promise to know what their potential is ahead of time.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
I apologize
but a lot of you guys are being really naive about the recruiting game. You’re assuming that coaches are ethical and honest and fair to people. History has shown that very few are.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
we've been spoiled for a long time in that regard.
somewhere around 60 years would be my guess.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
I'm not being naive, I know the reality of the situation.
But I still think schools should honor the commitments that they make to the recruits. It’s entirely unfair that the school has a lot less incentive to honor commitments they make than the players do. This is people’s futures we’re talking about.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
Again, notice the word should
I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is, this is not the reality. And it’s incredibly hard to actually write black letter rules that can deal with the problem.
So what ends up happening is that a coach or a conference or whatever comes in that has absolutely not qualms with pushing the envelope on that type of thing without obviously breaking the rule. Those teams have success. Either every team has to engage in the same unethical, but not illegal behavior, or they fall behind. So you either get haves and have-nots or a race to the bottom, where everyone is an asshole.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Let me convey what a douche bag coach did to my kid this year
He knew that the kid wanted to go to his school, but his school didn’t want him. But two conference foes did. He also knew that the kid had said he wouldn’t commit until he was sure where he wanted to go because he wanted to be a young man of his word. So to keep the kid from going to one of those schools in his conference who wanted him, he kept stringing him along until a week ago both schools filled their scholarship slots and my kid was left going to a non-bcs school. The coach at the un-named school was being a douche and taking advantage of a kid who confided his honorable intentions to him.
That is what you are dealing with.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Read my comments throughout this thread
and let me know if I’m being accurate with my characterizations. You’re as close as anyone on here to the actual recruiting game. I don’t have experience, but I’m incredibly cynical about this shit, and sadly, I’m probably on the right track…
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
dead on
There are some schools who do it the right way and stand by their word. Miami of Ohio has been that way, Duke, I could go on and on. But there are some institutions that are straight up douche.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
People aren't really trying to hear about kids getting screwed
but I’d bet your story about the kid being recruited to keep him from playing for rivals is not unique. Also, stories about kids getting promised specific things and then being asked to think about transferring 2 years later and kids being put on medical hardship waiver for injuries that they could have eventually come back from are not exactly rare either.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Can you say Saban?
Paige2PSU - February 3, 2012
Auburn pot calling Bama kettle black?
Darlin’, you know they do the same shit on the plains.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Saban and Meyer were the worst.
Saban steals other school’s recruits and then whines about commitment when a kid decommits from Alabama to go to another school.
Paige2PSU - February 3, 2012
It depends on who the commitment is to
If it’s to someone else and they welch, then the commitment wasn’t really strong anyway. If it’s to Saban, then the kid is a spineless, "chest"less invertebrate
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Miles is the one berating former commits, not Saban.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Saban does it too.
Paige2PSU - February 3, 2012
There’s no such thing as stealing someone else’s recruits.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
No they don't Uhaul
They just give them briefcases full of money.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Absolutely not.
Cam was only going to get $180K from Miss. St….he went to AU for free. :)
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Obviously
because he wanted to play for a coach with the stature that Chizik has.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I don't think I'm naive
I was just trying to say that IF a coach is up front with about what, exactly, the commitments are, then I don’t really have a problem if it just doesn’t work out for that kid and someone better comes in. That is called life. But if a coach is NOT upfront with a kid during recruitment, feeds him a bunch of BS, and then turns around and pulls something shady, I have a problem with that.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
This conversation is hypothetical
Very few coaches don’t get politician-y in recruiting and promise kids everything. Those that do probably wouldn’t consider booting a kid for a fresh scholarship spot.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
You're assuming a lot
Does he have to? What if the coach would rather have an extra scholarship for the incoming class than a productive team member? I was saying that coaches do those things specifically to humiliate the kid, not to help the team. Like imagine at work if someone said “I’m not going to fire you, but your duties are going to be switched to that of an administrative assistant and your office is going to be given to someone else, and you’ll share cubicle space with the interns”
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
A good coach should find a way to make him a productive team member
that, in my opinion, is the sign of a good coach. Maximize the talent available. Not just ditch it for more talent.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Should
I’m saying, flat out, that many coaches aren’t like that. Let’s not fool ourselves. Coaches commonly “encourage” players to leave the program, because their scholarship spot will improve the team if given to a high-rated recruit.
They “maximize the talent available” by “cutting the fat” and bringing in more talent.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I understand that
I get how the game is run. But there are less ethically questionable ways of doing things like “cutting the fat” than some others. I would hope thats what our coaches strive for.
I have no problems with a coach sitting down with a 5th year guy or someone who probably wont play and saying “look, you really aren’t going to see much playing time”, but the question is do they just tell the kid (albiet in a much more subtle way) “hey, you should just transfer” or do they offer the opportunity to work with them so they do have a shot at making a contribution?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I would love for our school to do this
and I will be upset if they join the race to the bottom.
But as long as other schools exploit that shit, it’s very very hard to compete unless you pull the same bullshit. And that sucks.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
truth
I have to think that some, if not most, recruits would be appreciative of the no-bullshit approach, which is what BOB seems to embrace. Maybe not every kid, but if you need to talk out of both sides of your mouth just to make a kid happy enough to sign with you, what are the chances he really does anything while he’s there? I dont think there’s going to be a ton of hand holding at these schools once the kid signs, unless he’s a Cam Newton or Vince Young.
But honestly is what landed kids like Dwill and MRob, so it can work.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
That is pretty much the whole point of the Grand Experiment. It isn’t a choice between falling behind or a race to the bottom. There is another way, and it is the Penn State Way.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
There we go!
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
as long as
you don’t take away my red swingline. do that and i’m burning the building down.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
Reality sucks, but sometimes you need to face the truth.
If the kid isn’t good enough to start, it’s not likely that he’s going to be good enough to start at another school that is just as good or better, and you are unjustly depriving him of that opportunity. The kid still gets a college degree for being on that practice squad.
Yes, the kid could decide to transfer to another school if he’s so focused on playing time. But that’s a decision for the kid to make, not the coach. Most kids that play college football never make it to the NFL. While most/all of them would like to, the reality is they’re also getting a college degree from a reputable university. That’s their compensation and isn’t something that a coach should determine revoking.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
If we're positing that he's allowing the kid to stay on the team rather than outright revoking his scholarship,
then yes, it’s in the coach’s best interest to make the player into a productive team member.
It’s not always black or white. Coaches aren’t either ethical or unethical. The ethical practice is the one we’ve described – have a conversation with a kid and lay out his options if he’s about to be passed over on the depth chart. If he decides to stay with the squad, then the coach has honored his commitment to him by finding him a spot. If a kid is “humiliated” by playing on the scout team, his options are either to get better or transfer/leave.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
a lot of kids WANT to leave after 4 years
if they redshirted and still never played going into year 5, the majority of times they wanna leave and get on with their lives
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Here's the other thing
Even if the kid doesn’t have his degree after four years, he got four years of free school, and there are advisers and money people at Penn State that can figure out a way to defray most, if not all, of the cost a fifth year when sufficiently motivated. It’s not like you have to push them out on an ice flow.
Unrelated, but thing that I’ve always thought was interesting. I seem to recall situations where fringe guys that had eligibility left but had graduated and wanted to leave the team were allowed to be introduced on Senior Day. I’ve always wondered if a guy who was planning on leaving early to go to the NFL would be allowed to run out with the seniors if he made his announcement before the last game.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
they certainly have (run out on senior day)
I think the underclassmen turning pro thing is more common in hoops
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
I think Ki-Jana Carter had graduated.
Bowman too I think. They both red-shirted, so they left with degrees and a year of eligibility left. My question was if they went to the old man and said I’m going pro, I graduated, and this is my last game here, I’d like to run out with the Seniors, would he have let them? I mean technically, they were seniors.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
my memory is not certain
and I just looked up and found myself 12 years removed from PSU (sadder every year)
But I really think I recall guys running out after 4 years. I am certain I might be wrong though.
Glad I could help.
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
just realized not long ago.
I’m at thirteen years. 12 years? I didn’t get much exposure to the players, but one guy I did and who always seened pretty nice to me was Gus Felder. Dont know if it was a show or not, but seemed a genuinely good guy.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
nice fella indeed
humble, quiet
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
on the other hand
I had the opportunity to meet the Crispin (sp?) brothers a few times, and both times they treated me like “the help.” Considering my job was in no way related to PSU, it pissed me off some.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
I hung out with
Joe Nastasi, Sean Lee, Cuncho Brown and Floyd Weddeburn once. One of them was my friend’s cousin and we hung out and played Tomb Raider in the apartment for a while. I never really put together that you played with these folks.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I wrote some vexatious statements on the Internet once
jtothep - February 3, 2012
yup
Cuncho and I were same class, the other 3 a year older
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
I shook Cuncho's hand
it was 14 or 15 years ago and it still left an impression on me. His fingers wrapped all the way around my hands. I felt like he was Dikembe Mutombo.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
HELL of a hoops player too
I think he dressed for a few PSU hoops games. So did Macklin. We had some real good basketball players. Jurevicius, Cuncho, Macklin, Courtney Brown, Doug Ostrosky, Lavar.
Believe it or not….Derek Fox was the most freakish dunker I’ve ever seen.
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Nastasi's little bro
Broke Kobe Bryant’s state record for poins scored in PIAA history. Joe was good in HS too, though the competition was decidedly very poor.
And that note about Fox is pretty unbelievable. I’ve heard the same thing about Ethan Kilmer from 2005, though, so who knows.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
pound for pound best dunker I've ever seen
and I have Clipper season tickets this year
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Wow.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I choose the
Angels as my baseball team back in ’79. And just to be totally anti-establishment I took the Clippers too. While never fully invested in the NBA, I am pleased to see the Clips finally not being a total screw up. (well as long as Paul stays healthy).
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
I'm an NBA fan
so the last 5 seasons, I’ve been picking off games when I can on stubhub (both Lakers and Clips)
met a Clip sales rep at a game two years ago, and he wore me down this last offseason and I made the plunge….TOTALLY lucked into the CP3 thing and it has been a blast this year so far
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
I shadowed Joe's brother AJ
in 5th grade B-ball. He could not be stopped. We lost 34-30 and AJ had 30 of their points. At some point I was told to tackle him.
jarosity - February 5, 2012
He scored some absurd number of points in HS
I think his average was way over 30
OctaShields - February 5, 2012
One of my favorite, odd PSU memories
Was Ahmad Collins earnestly saying “Yo smoko el blunto. Philly style. That means you smoke a blunt!” in our summer 12-credit Spanish class. That dude was something.
Also, Stephen Pitts was one of the nicest people I’ve met anywhere.
Chris Grovich - February 3, 2012
My ex
used to tutor football players in summer Spanish classes. Apparently that’s something football players usually do, take Spanish in the summer and get it done with.
Obviously all the dudes hit on her all the time, some more overtly than others. I met them a few times and had that awkward greeting where I’m kinda grilling them because I know they always hit on my girlfriend, but at the same time respecting their football status, and they’re grilling me because I’m dating a girl they would probably like to have sex with.
Rodney Kinlaw was a genuinely good dude, though, and mostly respectful, so I’ll throw his name out there.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Yeah, there were a bunch of players in that class
Quick, easy way to knock out three semesters’ worth of language credits. I’m trying to think of who else was in that class. Matt Fornadel and Brad Jones, for sure, because they dressed up as a bullfighter and bull for their final project (which was hilarious, because Fornadel’s costume was about four sizes small). How I remember this crap from 1995 or 1996 is beyond me.
Chris Grovich - February 3, 2012
Matt hosted me on my visit
and Jonesy is still a dear friend…he was at my wedding 2.5 years ago
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
another sidenote on Brad Jones, because I feel people should hear this
He was not the most physically gifted player, but made his way into the starting lineup in 1996 at guard as a junior through real hard work and toughness. We play USC in the opener, great win, he plays great, etc, etc. Got back to State College, didn’t feel good, so he went to the doc. Diagnosed with blood clots in his lungs that Monday and never played another down of football in his life.
Started exactly one game in his career. So fucking heartbreaking and he never complained. Spent the next two seasons helping out with the scout team and oline.
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Yeah, that was sad. I remember that going down.
Also a very nice, funny, sarcastic kind of guy.
Chris Grovich - February 3, 2012
So this begets the question
were there any of them you would have let hit it? I know my gf in school had a class and worked on a project with Poz. She had standing permission to sleep with him and sire his love child.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
No
And the dude who was the biggest asshole was actually someone who never played. I understand most of the other players didn’t like him either. He was apparently outright lewd sometimes and thought he was the shit.
Anyway, my ex’s friend apparently tutored Poz. She had a boyfriend (who turned out to be a douche) and passed up a few legitimate opportunities to hang out with Poz, which we would mock her for later.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Very interesting.
My GF was a Spanish instructor at PSU from ’06 – ’09 and she had nothing but praise for all of the FB players, except for one.
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
Would have been summer 06
the douche had initials DH
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
The player I’m talking about wasn’t a douche to my GF, she just told me that he was a scumbag. I won’t give initials, but I will say that he plays on Sundays.
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
Damn that Kerry Collins
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
I tried to have her set up a legit situation
where I could meet him after one of their group meetings or something, but it never worked out. That or she purposely made sure it didnt happen, which in retrospect may have been a good thing. Restraining orders can stick with a man.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
the Ahmad dog story
surprises me not one bit
and, yeah, Stephen Michael was a helluva guy….only got to play with him one year
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Also, Ahmad...
…said to our teacher, again in the most sincere way ever, “instead of saying leche (for milk) can we just say ‘moo-moo’?”
I think Pitts and I both lived in Park Hill Apts. during that summer, or his girlfriend lived there. I remember he had a white Mustang that was like his baby.
Also the apartment complex where I burned a Miami shirt on the balcony after they crapped the bed in the 1995 Orange bowl against Nebraska. So it must have been the summer of ’95 when I took that class.
Chris Grovich - February 3, 2012
I had summer intensive language program
with Omar Easy (freak of nature), Kenny Watson, Matt Joyner, and Rick Slater…all great guys.
Slater was the smartest/toughest guy I ever met…real inspiration
SweepTheLeg - February 3, 2012
whata diverse, and awesome
group that is
loved K-dub
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
I'm actually talking about
doing things with the express purpose of humiliating. Like jerking around the kid and making him feel unwelcome. A non-punishment punishment for continuing to occupy the scholarship slot.
Most coaches are smart enough to know they shouldn’t actually pull a scholarship. But if they have a loaded conversation with a kid about maybe thinking about leaving, the kid doesn’t leave, and then they start jerking the kid around in a way that sends a message to the kid that they’re clearly being jerked around…well how is that really ethical?
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I notice you didn't once use the word 'scholarship'
And much of the rest of your context includes language insinuating this player remains a part of the team.
As long as ‘make room for’ doesn’t ever move into scholarship revocation, I think we’re probably on the same page.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Yes.
I’m not in favor of scholarship revocation unless we’re talking about a rising 5th year senior who has been given four years to earn a degree and become a productive team member. If he’s not going to play significant minutes, then I think a school is well within its right to consider itself to have fulfilled its commitment.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
Got it
And with you.
And, ‘hi’, by the way.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Ha!
What’s up, tot?
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
Sup bud
Been sliggy slammed gettin ready for vacation. But tomorrow morning, it’s on. Check out this trifecta of freebies we scored:
1. Free place to stay at friends ski house in Breckendridge
2. Free tot-care at my mom’s in the 717 (wifey’s drivin em up now; was kinda sad saying goodbye for a week)
3. Continental Visa rewards for 2round trip direct flts to Denver, from DCA!
So stoked!
How you been?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
The snowboarder in me
is insanely jealous of you at the moment :(
jman07 - February 3, 2012
I'm def starting out on Monday on the board
May try going back to skis for one day, but mostly counting on boarding to keep my knees comfy.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Get this
my buddy is a skier, a good one at that. I’m a boarder and not too shabby. He tried boarding for the first time on Monday. He has tendonitis in his left knee and boarding was really bothering him. Then again it might have been because he was falling alot more than he does when he skies.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
That sounds fantastic and I'm immediately jealous.
Life’s been crazy personally and professionally. Starting to get back into the swing of things now, thankfully.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
Good to hear!
Will look forward to some new AC posts this Spring ;)
jtothep - February 3, 2012
have a great time
wish I could still ski
/back, knees, fat gut
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
I've been working on my own fat gut
jtothep - February 3, 2012
I am jealous
of the fact you get to go Skiing, but I myself always was a water person so I did more of the water skiing, surfing thing (well, when I could go surfing we all know the east coast isn’t good for that.)
Modanya - February 3, 2012
I agree but do you really want to resemble the SEC ?
If you want poaching ( which I don’t care one way or another ) but then we should all be allowed to greyshirt and oversign kids. My guess is the Big 10 Commish wants a Nat’l Championship and he wants to start to win bowl games so of course he’s going to let teams like OSU oversign. Now the fact that he was able to get aways with it this year you know he will do it again next year. How long do you think it will take UM & Nebraska to follow suit ? If Ohio State gets away with it why cant we ? Just like when Alabama started doing it Auburn, FLA and LSU quickly copied it then Georgia, So.Car and LSU jumped on shortly thereafter. So I guess your right the Big10 will probably go the way of the SEC. Too bad.
NJDeadhead - February 3, 2012
Those are not directly related issues.
Poaching does not beget oversigning or grayshirting, etc. If PSU has three legit openings, and poaches three top players from UM/OSU/whoever, that’s fine in my book.
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
Yes, I agree with that.
NJDeadhead - February 3, 2012
Bielema and Dantonio
It’s time to put on your big girl pants. This is how it’s done in big time college football. What a bunch of whiners.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Is it surprising that it is those two that are doing the crying?
jman07 - February 3, 2012
I honestly cannot believe anyone is crying about this.
Everyone recruits commited players…everyone. In fact, a coach failing to do so would suggest that he is not doing his job. Bielema and Dantonio have both flipped commitments….and I didn’t hear Meyer whining about people “negative” recruiting against OSU with NCAA investigation.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I dont mind recruiting committed players
assuming those players are open to being recruited still. If a recruit is firm in his commitment to a school but the other coach is trying to skeeze his way in, I begin to worry, as that to me reeks of desperation. And desperation leads to illicit methods of recruiting and general foul play.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
If a kid is truly committed, he can put a stop to it.
Otherwise, he’s still “on the market.”
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I think Urbz' comment was something to the effect of...
“Do you [Joe Recruit] have any interest in us [Ohio State]? No? OK. Have a good life. Yes? Well, here, let me pitch you on our school.”
If the kid is open to be recruited, he really isn’t committed in the first place.
Jeff Junstrom - February 3, 2012
exactly my point
But I dont get the feeling from Urbz that he just says “oh ok, we’re going to move on then”. I get the feel its a couple more calls and visits that are like “hey, are you sure about going there? I mean, they don’t even have the chicken cosmo anymore…”
You can argue that a kid who flips his commitment was never fully committed in the first place, but a kid might really be sold on a place, only to hear a bunch of lies and negative recruiting that makes him change. And remember, these are all 18 yo kids who can be easily swayed by some of these adults.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
You get the feeling?
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
judging from his recruiting tactics before at Florida
yes, I get that feeling from him. Urbz seems to be willing to tell these kids anything and apparently has absolutely no issues with chasing down recruited kids. I limit it to just “I have a feeling” as I have no concrete evidence in the matter, therefore I cant say anything more definitive.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Yeah, it may be Bielema and Dantonio, but...
I definitely think Urban was doing more than just asking if they were interested and hanging up the phone if they weren’t.
iamrobk - February 3, 2012
Eh.
I cannot base my opinion on conjecture.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
we should elect you to the BoT
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
I object to you calling Bielema and Dantonio girls.
It’s giving us girls a bad name. i could care less who gets poached where, and it’s less to do with my vague wariness of the recruitment process and more to do with the fact that this is football, and being upset over losing the favor of a high school boy is ridiculously—
…Oh. Nevermind, I get it now.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
My apologies. :)
Big boy pants.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
He wasn't calling them girls in a way that spoke badly about how girls act.
He was saying that they had vaginas.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
There's a paper about use of feminine language in literary sports discourse too.
Success with Hyperlinking will inspire all of my research papers from this point forward.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
This reminds me of my feminism philosphy class in college.
Ah, good times.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
A friend did a fully funded project on the two different female football leagues.
I was so mad I didn’t think of it. Her presentation was full to capacity, my American identity presentation had around 15 people I didn’t know and the two guys I made friends with at the social events the night before.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
by female football leagues
you’re referring to the lingerie football league, right?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Hahaha
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
She compared the lingerie league to the IWFL.
Yes, there were pictures.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
would this presentation be available online?
I have a sudden interest of feminism relating to sports.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Nope.
But I can tell you all about a deconstructionist approach to defining Anerican identity through immigrant literature. That’s sexy, right? Right?
/nerd
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012 via mobile
sounds extremely hot to me!
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
Where would my self esteem be without you?
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Sure
immigrant literature is totally hot.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
it was good enough for the two guys I convinced to come.
I don’t know what that says about them.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012 via mobile
They probably thought you were talking about Hustler
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I actually played football in High school
as a female. I started out as a running back, but since I played soccer in the spring they moved me to field goal (Also I think guys got all butt frustrated about tackling a girl) Which they didn’t even know I was until I took my helmet off tehe….
Modanya - February 3, 2012
I think being 6ft
was why it was easy to forget I was female
Modanya - February 3, 2012
Have you seen the Lingerie Football League.
Notwithstanding the Lingerie, it’s actually pretty watchable. Better than Arena Football.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Philly has a team
Just throwing that one out there.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
so a BSD get together?
smh244 - February 3, 2012
Possibly
Like I said just throwing that one out there and seeing what sticks.
But yeah pretty much.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
reasonably sure that would make something sticky anyway
smh244 - February 3, 2012
Mmm
Good Cheesewiz on a Pat’s steak… I hear ya.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
I'm impressed
simply because I can barely walk down the street with my underwear half stuck in my butt, let alone run for 89 yards on 17 carries and 2 TDs
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Have you tried?
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Andrea Dworkin
Crackpot.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Did you get any action
out of that?
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
Interestinfly
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Sorry, my phone freaked out.
But yes, I did.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I'm actually impressed with BOB during this
and so glad he isn’t being a whiny bitch like Bert B. Yeah, so we lost some good kids to Urban Meyer. He was still able to salvage a decent class of kids. Hopefully, he’ll turn out to be the next big recruiting guru and give Meyer a run for his money.
SarcasmJam - February 3, 2012
I'm thinking BoB can't wait to recruit next year, full time
I have a feeling he knows alot about recruiting from his days in the south and the B1G might be in for a big suprise when PSU hits the recruiting trail with its new staff.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
BUT HE'S NOT A MICHIGAN MAN ARGA ARGA ARGA
/whereami
Kevin Powers - February 3, 2012
MICHIGAN SUCKS!
OBrienSchofieldismyHero - February 3, 2012
Lasch Building Signs
I had seen the first one, but not the second. 1, 3, 4 & 5 are awesome and #2 is surprising. I’m guessing it fits in with 3 & 4 in that the coaching staff is asking the players to strongly consider their messaging about themselves and the program.
But ‘managing expectations’ has always been a lightning rod for me. As in, if I start to feel you managing mine, I get upset and a little indignant. Like, ‘why don’t you just do your job instead of trying to control or manage my reactions. In a fundamental sense, expectations are in the eye of the beholder imho and attempts & campaigns to manage them always felt a little heavy-handed or big brothery.
All that personal shite being said, I’m kinda interested in the fact that BOB has included it as a player responsibility. Color me very interested in seeing how it evolves and resolves going forward.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
It seems to fit in with what we know of his philosophy so far though
ie, he’s looking for motivated guys who will set goals and strive to meet them. Not just pick up some kid who wants to coast by.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Yeah, I agree it fits
And I do think it’s cool. But it’s definitely a new add-on, isn’t it? It’s giving a pretty big PR assignment to your players. It’s well done, in that it includes ‘speak for yourself’ and ’don’t fuel or believe the hype,’ but the ‘manage expectations’ is asking them to do some PR work for the program while still doing 3, 4 & 5.
Actually, the more I think about it, that combo of Manage Expectations & Speak for Yourself is very subtle & savvy. Ska, tell me if this characterization of that seems fair: ‘go out and do some messaging work for the program, but make sure it’s understood to only be from you.’
jtothep - February 3, 2012
definitely agree
They seem to be genuinely concerned with image, which is completely understandable and totally acceptable, not only given the situation we’re in, but just as a general practice. You want these kids to be responsible for their own actions so as to represent the university as a whole in a favorable light.
It also seems to be making these kids more self sufficient and self-reliant. Set your own expectations, take responsibility for yourself, etc. Basically, you’re young men and this University and coaching staff isn’t going to coddle you the whole time. We’re going to give you the tools and the training so you can go out into the world on your own as men. Same message as before, just a little different take on it.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Haha, yeah
You hit on the ambiguity in that #2. Whose expectations is BOB directing the players to manage? It’s an imperative with no subject or predicate. I see you interpreted it to mean manage one’s own expectations. I was originally looking at it as directing them to manage the expectations of all the people they talk to; the media, their families, their classmates.
More cleverness built into the whose expectations being undefined.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
I haven't baldly disliked anything this guy has done yet.
As I’ve said before, he can’t be Joe Paterno. He has to be his own man, and he has to be the head coach of the team. I want him to make decisions and to change things. And I want those changes to be subtle modernizations, not a whole hog disregard for who we are.
In my opinion, so far he’s been fantastic in that regard.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Minus the beard thing
Guys look better when they’re clean shaven. I’ve always enjoyed that our teams just look better than all the other teams. If he’s so concerned with image…
belbijou - February 3, 2012
Well he probably can't grow a beard
Could you imagine all the crazy treasures that would get caught in that crevasse if he grew a beard? It would be the Bermuda Triangle of lunch leftovers.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
you may
Be interested to know (or not), that Belichick has been hanging those (almost identical) signs in pats facilities. Off the top of my head, manage expectations and don’t fuel the hype are the same and in the same positions.
PSUinBOSSton - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I can't tell yet if I'm interested in that or not
But I know I’m now interested in the signs’ content. What do you think about sign 2, #s 1-5?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
it depends if its genuine.
For many years now Pats players have sounded scared to talk about what happens “in house”. To me that is totally contrary to the spirit of speak for yourself. I never liked the mandate to manage expectations. I guess the point is "don’t give the opposition bulletin board material. But it sounds more like an attempt at playing a coy game with the public.
PSUinBOSSton - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, I don't like the saying "manage expectations"
I’ve always associated it with setting a low bar. Like “a Big Ten championship next season really isn’t realistic, but we could definitely get to 9 wins”. I don’t want players going out and talking trash and acting like their big shit, but I also want our guys to believe every single season that they are capable of winning a MNC. Believe in yourself, take care of your business, do your best, and let the chips fall where they may. If fans want to get all hyped up, let them (just don’t buy into it). Let your actions speak for you.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
"Managing expectations" sounds like something Belichick does with the 50 year old divorcees he meets in bars.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Honey, I can't guarantee you're going to enjoy this...
but I’ll buy you something real nice for breakfast.
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
He totally welches on the breakfast though.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
And he secretly video tapes it too
jman07 - February 3, 2012
And watches it with Charlie Weiss.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
While Charlie eats the breakfast.
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
Common misconception
Charlie Weiss has no defined “meals” as he is in a constant state of eating.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
He did have gastric bypass surgery...
the constant eating is just a necessary byproduct of avoiding big meals.
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
I thought he ate so hard the band burst.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Ate so hard
motherfuckers always find me?
In buffet lines you can always find me?
Want some Mac & Cheese? Better keep movin’ if your stuck behind me.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
He lures Weiss in with the free breakfast offer too.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
So everybody leaves disappointed.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
I have these frozen waffles
and if your lucky there might be a pop-tart in the cupboard. Go get it sweetheart.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
You guys..
are totally grossing me out with this Belichick sub thread
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Did yout get lured in with the promise of Eggos and Pop-Tarts too?
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
And Roofie Coladas
jesse. - February 3, 2012
No wonder Charlie has a FUPA
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Not gonna lie..
the video-taping caught my attention.
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
3. Don't Believe or Fuel the Hype
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Maybe its more of a
Dont come in here with goals of winning the Heisman 4 years in a row and beating every record, but intead bettering yourself every day and becoming the best player you can be. Remember, these are 18-22 year old kids. Setting too high of expectations on yourself all the time can be just as detrimental as too low of expecations.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Yeah, this
I think it’s him trying to tell them not to get ahead of themselves. Don’t think TOO highly of yourself.
iamrobk - February 3, 2012
I'm totally good with that
I just think there are better phrases to use. But that is just my interpretation of that phrase.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
in my opinion
If that were true, it would be on the sign on your way into the facility, not when you’re leaving.
PSUinBOSSton - February 3, 2012 via mobile
kind of like
are you going to get better today, or worse. Your choice.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
Haha, exactly
That’s the downside of that phrase—that what you’re really doing is sandbagging.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Yes, sandbagging is a good word to use there
I just seem to usually here that phrase when things aren’t going well. Like “We’ve hit an iceberg and the boat is is sinking. We have enough lifeboats for most of you, but honestly, if you’re poor, don’t expect too much. Actually, you probably want to start resigning yourself to your fate. Cheerio.”
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Exactly
Managing expectations upward is indeed less common. But it’s out there. Pat Chambers has come in and done that with hoops and #ATTITUDE. Sanderson has done that with wrestling and championships.
Maybe Dave Joyner & Ira Lubert have done that with BOB?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
BEARDS BEARDS BEARDS
EVERYBODY GROW OUT YOUR FUCKING BEARD YEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Peter Gray - February 3, 2012
I'd take
1 Hullstache over a dozen beards any day of the week.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
What about the Zordstache?
Can we see a rebirth of the Zordestache?
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
The Zordstache doesn't die
it only rests until the time is right to strike
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I heard that the Stache
Doesn’t need rest, just long bouts of staring.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
I'm down with the beards
the hats? not so much
hopefully this isn’t “the beginning of the end” of player conduct
/half joking
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Sup Beach?
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
sup dude
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
I hear you
It’s not about hats or no hats, it’s about a sort of standard of discipline. If he can let them wear hats but make sure the discipline and conduct is still upheld in general, then that’s fine.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
If it's more of an "anything goes" approach
well, that doesn’t make me happy.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I agree
belbijou - February 3, 2012
I'm ok with hats,
as long as they’re Abe Lincoln style stovepipe hats.
icavalera - February 3, 2012
I don't mind them having beards, as long as it's neat,
but I don’t like BOB letting them grow their hair out. I don’t think it looks good on most guys.
Paige2PSU - February 3, 2012
Poz included, unfortunately
Cari Greene - February 3, 2012
Yes, Poz included.
Paige2PSU - February 3, 2012
If you don't want to lose recruits to Urbz
do a better job of locking down your commits. It’s that simple. This isn’t little league, and you don’t get a trophy for trying. And guess what? If you go out and beat tOSU into the ground each year, kids are gonna start paying less attention to what Urbz is telling them anyway.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Verbal commitments mean nothing.
If they did, you would not have to sign a National Letter of Intent. Lock down your commits and it will not be a problem.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
What?
Does this mean that JayPa’s Xbox has been officially retired?
When was the ceremony?
CDRS - February 3, 2012
It was promoted to assistant athletic director position.
I believe it is in charge of the women’s lacrosse team now.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Really liking how BOB is putting his stamp on the program..
1) Hair/Facial Hair – Don’t have a huge problem with it as long as player’s look presentable when it counts (media day, press, etc). Back in the 70’s and 80’s player’s had longer hair. Chaz Powell basically had a ‘fro this year. Didn’t bother me.
2) The motivational signs, a bit cheesy but I think its ultimately a pretty good idea. Hopefully gets the player’s serious about whatever environment they’re in.
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Need some rules
A lot of these things are arbitrary. What looked sloppy to Joe or my grandma looks normal to younger people. As long as they handle their responsibilities and show up time (early). I imagine they’ll still dress up on the road. Tom Brady is always dressed up in post game interviews. I imagine BOB expects that.
I think Silas Redd would look great with a big Amish beard.
Hats in the building are ok but NOT
- In church or during any prayer
- at the dinner table
- during the national anthem
- when entering home of new girlfriend’s mother
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Need some rules
A lot of these things are arbitrary. What looked sloppy to Joe or my grandma looks normal to younger people. As long as they handle their responsibilities and show up time (early). I imagine they’ll still dress up on the road. Tom Brady is always dressed up in post game interviews. I imagine BOB expects that.
I think Silas Redd would look great with a big Amish beard.
Hats in the building are ok but NOT
- In church or during any prayer
- at the dinner table
- during the national anthem
- when entering home of new girlfriend’s mother
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Damn servers
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
RE: Player Poaching....
It’s ironic that MSU and Wisconsin, team’s that have been the most successful in the B1G the last two years, are suddenly flipping shit about Urban Meyer.
As many others have noted, they didn’t lose nearly the number of recruits PSU did to OSU.
Methinks that those guys are seeing the writing on the wall- that they don’t have the national recognition in terms of brand, tradition or coaching resume as OSU, UM and PSU. You could argue that OSU has the best of those three entities while PSU and UM have 2/3.
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Um, 100% both?
Meyer is shady and at Ohio State (this will end in hilarious fashion, people) AND Bielema is a child who can’t take what he dishes out.
ckmneon - February 3, 2012
reccedy
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Relevant to the topic
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/11/11/2554642/bret-bielemas-not-here-to-make-friends
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
Tim Tebow
I would like Tebow to HONESTLY say how he feels Meyer prepared him for the NFL. Granted, he was a winner in college, but that doesn’t always mean a successful NFL career. And he did get drafted higher than anyone thought, but with all of the baggage he has had to deal with through the wonderful Media hogs at ESPN, did he think that Meyer used him and then threw him out to the wolves?
I’m hoping that Meyer has his 2 year stint with tOSU and is outahere before we know it. I think that would be how I would start a conversation with a potential recruit if i were BOB.
denise60134 - February 3, 2012
I don't see why Tebow would be upset.
By all accounts, he had a great relationship with Meyer. He was ideally suited for that offense, won a Heisman Trophy and two BCS Titles. And he starts in the NFL.
I’m not sure Tebow would have become a better NFL prospect by playing in a “pro style” system in college. If anything, Meyer’s offense accentuated the positive attributes he has so that people overlooked his mediocre passing ability.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
I know he has a great relationship with Meyer, but from everything I have seen and heard, he really did not prepare him for his next job in the NFL. All of the QB experts have said that his motion is wrong, and it could have been fixed when he were younger. Seems like something I would question. That is all I am saying.
denise60134 - February 3, 2012
I can buy into that.
Although I do think throwing motion is overrated, much like a baseball swing. Not everyone can look like Peyton Manning or Joe DiMaggio. Philip Rivers is successful and has a bizarre motion. Gary Sheffield and Kevin Youkilis have strange stances. Sometimes things are just ingrained.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
OT
But Gary Sheffield had such unique batspeed that he could have started facing the catcher. It would be like if a QB could throw 95 yards but had a strange delivery.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Yes. This
He had such strong hands/wrists that it didn’t matter what stance he had. His batspeed made up for it.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
There's a nature/nurture argument there too
He had a pretty wonky stance with his hands being low and the bat pointing toward the pitcher when the pitcher released the ball that took a lot more effort to get to the proper hitting position. But the reason his swing developed like that is because it could. Because it was his rhythm, and he knew how long it took him to get his hands back and then attack the ball. You literally can’t teach that type of thing.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Same with Bagwell
His stance was so awkward, yet it worked for him. I remember reading an interview he gave where he was like, “look kids, it works for me, but don’t try this in a game because it probably won’t work for you” or something along those lines.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Steroids
may
or may notwork for you, too.No.21 - February 3, 2012
I'd agree more on Bagwell
Not that Sheffield didn’t juice at all in his career, but his batspeed and wrists were otherwordly back when he played for Milwaukee and San Diego.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
It is all about where the hands are when the hips begin rotation.
you can hold your bat anywhere as long as you are strong enough to get it into position in .2 seconds. strong hands a must. Want your child to hit, teach him/her to do fingertip pushups at a young age. Will be a good start.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
See
I don’t get the steroid rumors with Bagwell. Yea, it’s possible that he did but nobody has ever come out and said he did or anything even second hand like that.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
A quick search
brought this up.
On the interweb=must be true.
No.21 - February 3, 2012
Just want to point out
that the article I linked to was fiction. It doesn’t say that until an addendum at the end of the (long) article.
No.21 - February 3, 2012
I wouldn't say for sure he did
But I could never keep a straight face and use the Griffey, Jr. defense I use with Bagwell. If I had to bet my own money, there is 0% chance I’d ever bet that he didn’t use steroids.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I would agree with that statement
Just a shame that everybody is assumed dirty because of how prevalent it was in the last 1-2 decades.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
There's definitely an argument that not EVERYBODY was
But if you want to make that argument, you don’t use Jeff Bagwell.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
That'd be a terrible position to take
When it comes to sports and cheating and stuff, I’m very cynical. However, there are a few guys that it would crush me to find out that they used. As much as I dislike the Yankees and Derek Jeter, he would be one. Chipper Jones would be another. Same with Griffey Jr and Greg Maddux. Not saying there is zero chance they ever did, but if it was proven they did, I’d be crushed.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
It would kill me to learn that Rafael Belliard used steroids.
Because how in the fuck would that make any sense?
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Like when
all those nondescript middle relievers kept popping up on the lists.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
No, that I could see.
Belliard fucking sucked really hard.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Without them he
doesn’t even make the majors. Makes more sense for a borderline MLB guy to juice to get over the hump for the $$ grab than a successful guy to pad his stats to guarantee he makes the HoF.
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
If he was juicing it damn well better have been with a sugar pill.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Chipper was too busy chasing tail to juice.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Pimp Larry. Pimp.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
His wife would have preferred he juice.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Until the side effects kicked in
and little Larry was not ready for his at bat.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
FTFY
Chipper was too busy
chasing taileating at Hooters to juice.carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
I hear you on that
I seriously doubt there were more than a handful of Pirates players who juiced. I followed them closely, and very few players ever appeared to be interested in making themselves better by standard means, let alone by using performance enhancers.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Brian Giles
would be the exception.
I do remember Lloyd McClendon once saying something to the effect of “look at our stats, do you really think anyone here is on ’roids?”
PSU Mudder - February 3, 2012
Bagwell admitted to taking Andro when it was legal
that’s about it. He (by his own account and others’) spent too much time in the weight room, which ironically ended his career, because he developed an arthiritic shoulder from lifting too much.
I’m not saying Baggy never roided. But it’s never been proven, he’s never showed up on any lists, and the only “evidence” that he did was that he got really big and hit a lot of home runs during a time when a lot of guys were juicing. Innocent until proven guilty.
For the record, I’m a life-long Astros fan and Bagwell is my favorite player of all time. So yes, I’m biased. But it kills me to see guys with HOF votes not give him the nod because they suspect he used steroids when they have no proof to back it up.
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
I have no evidence one way or the other.
But I don’t believe Bags juiced.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
He should be in the HOF
and the fact that he might not make it in because some people think “he might have” is a joke.
Same with Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. I don’t like either of those guys but they are clearly 2 of the better ball players of any era.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Clemens & Bonds are essentially established cheaters.
Bags is not.
Huge difference. Bags should be in, screw the other two.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Bonds was a great player
before the juice. Same with Clemens. Both took the juice for various reasons. However, that doesn’t remove the fact that with or without steroids they were great players.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Indeed.
But I cannot abide by their disrespecting the honor of the game.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Bonds was a cocky asshole
with a candy arm, who refused to take a few steps in when Van Slyke told him to, and thus was unable to throw out SID FUCKING BREAM, coming home from 2nd.
/Pirates fan’d
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Seriously
Sid “the sloth” Bream. There are giant turtles that are faster than he is. As a Braves fan, that is a happy time. However, Bonds is/was/will always be a prick.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
For the record
I don’t really think that “morals” should come into the HOF debate. There are literally hundreds of dispicable people in Cooperstown. To pretend that steriod users can’t be enshrined to “protect the sanctity” of the Hall is horseshit.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
It's not a moral issue for me.
It’s a fairness one. I don’t think you should be honored if you cheated.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Steeler's offensive line in the late 70's?
hence all offensive players’ stats.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
So the guys from the 70s
who doctored the ball or used greenies and other stuff to get an advantage shouldn’t be in?
jman07 - February 3, 2012
I am of the opinion
That Dock Ellis should be in the Hall of Fame expressly because of his use of substances.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
And once more
My stance on the issue is slightly changing. I used to be deadset against any/all cheaters. But throughout baseball history, cheating (in various forms) has been tolerated and cultivated. So to keep the steriods users out means we need to go back and clean out all the other cheaters.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
to bad you couldn't figure out a way to cheat to hit better!
BMAN13 - February 4, 2012
andro is/was juicing
IMHO
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
It was neither illegal nor banned by baseball.
Steriods have always been illegal.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I understand
but andro crosses the line for me. I fault baseball for not outlawing the stuff, but the players have to take some accountability.
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Okay, but it was legal and permitted at the time.
Is using creatine juicing?
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
I've never taken either one
so I can’t really comment on the difference
my understanding is that creatine is just a protein like supplement…andro is more of a chemical thing.
I don’t know, I’m definitely out of my element here….but it just seemed so clear that McGwire was juicing, and he was an andro dude. It seemed to make a clear competitive advantage
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Also
HGH is still basically untestable, since it’s a natural substance. A lot of dudes still use it to enhance performance. It stretches the line because it’s illegal but you can’t get caught unless you’re caught red-handed.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I dont think his issue is that the motion is unorthodox
its that it takes a quarter and a half for the windup.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I'd rather be in the NFL unprepared
Than not in the NFL. Tebow doesn’t sniff the league as a pro-style passer.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
This was much more succinct that what I was trying to say.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
The better guy...
to ask would be Alex Smith.
Esteban d' Amur - February 3, 2012
GUYS Ted Roof would like to weigh in.........
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Is holding this pose for 30 seconds his response to every question in a press conference?
Until I hear otherwise, I assume this is the case.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Should get used to this....
He makes this face when he attempts to stop an offense.
Operative word being “attempts.”
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Since when did they allow you to throw the football? That's new.
Succss With Honor Always - February 3, 2012
Forward Pass?
What is this you speak of?
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
What's that brown thing the quarterback is holding?
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
If it's Bolden, it's probably a turd.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
ooof
LOL’d, but rough man.
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
I know. I actually have nothing against the kid
And I want to see if BOB can salvage him. I just couldn’t pass that opportunity up.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Jesus..
I hope this guy can coach defense, or at least “appear” to coach defense while Larry and Ron do all the work
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
This is actually an animated .gif
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
This
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Needs a tad more animation.
PSU_Lions_84 - February 4, 2012
If you stare at it long enough, the background moves.
The Roofster remains perfectly still, though.
leeharvey418 - February 5, 2012
I was afraid of that --
Roofster staying still, I mean.
PSU_Lions_84 - February 5, 2012
I imagine a very Keanu-esque "Whoa" in my head when I see this pic
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I thought that was Graham Spanier watching the national media descend on campus
Mr. Rosewater - February 3, 2012
Btw...
I find it mildly amusing that Meyer fled the SEC because the recruiting was too stressful, only to get bitched at for making recruiting stressful in the B1G.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
isnt it conjecture that he fled for that reason?
PSUinBOSSton - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, lots of things can cause undue stress on an SEC coach.
Having to ‘fire’ half a dozen scholarship players every year, dodging bullets in the locker room, lugging all that cash on recruiting trips…
leeharvey418 - February 3, 2012
Finding reasons why one of your players has pictures of stolen laptops,
Pretending that you care about your players grades…
jman07 - February 3, 2012
like your wife finding you with coeds.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
Explain this Meyer Rumor to me...
The whole he “got involved with a cheerleader” thing. Did this actually happen? I could care less, but I’ve read it enough and its kind of funny.
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
It came out around the first time he decided to step away from Fla.
around the time he had some problems after the LSU game that season.
BMAN13 - February 3, 2012
It was strongly (and repeatedly) suggested that the recruiting and the time one must dedicate to it in the SEC were the 1a & 1b factors contributing to the stress that caused his health issues.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Re: what I said via Twitter
I was talking more about the HOW than the WHAT. Stealing recruits sucks, but is obviously somewhat accepted, since everyone’s done it at some point. But how these things are done are open to a lot of criticism, both ethically and “legally”.
Key part of quote “and the situation got rectified”. That signifies to me that BB wasn’t talking about flipping recruits, but something about the method he was using to do that or to recruit generally. If you take Bielema’s word, he saw or heard something that he thought was bullshit, called Meyer on it, and Meyer said “oops” and stopped doing it.
Also, let it be know, I hate Bielema more than Urban, I’m just trying to look at this objectively. Of course this could all be way off. It’s hard to draw conclusions from word choice when someone uses the word poignant horribly in the preceding sentence.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Knowing Meyer, he probably to Bret to go F himself.
And kindly suggested he work on those 2013 and 2014 Wisconsin kids, b/c Meyer wanted him at his fighting weight when he bitch slapped him again.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Dude, you love Meyer
He looks cool in this whole situation, but let’s be honest: he’s not that cool. Seriously. People are making him out to be some cold-blooded hitman or something. He’s a football coach who tries harder than almost every other football coach, and has no qualms with filling the space between ethical and against the rules. He’s not John Wayne.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
wait
what John Wayne movie are we talking about?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
He's a football coach with an inventive offense
who was very good when his backyard was filled with some of the best recruits in the country and when he was in a morally and ethically ambigious conference on the role of the “student-athlete”. It’s an open question how well he’ll do in Columbus.
spakajewia - February 3, 2012
The only thing you have to change there is the piece about the conference
the school has always leaned close to that standard anyway. It’s not much of a different situation at all.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
The truth is Meyer has not done shit since Mullen left for Starkville.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I don't "love Meyer."
I hate whining about recruiting. But it would not surprise me in the least if he told Bret to kiss his ass.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
These changes are hard to wrap my mind around.
First, I will say I’m totally in with Bill O’Brien. I love what I’ve seen and heard so far, and he will get my unconditional support unless he does something that terribly embarrasses the university or loses to Indiana (wait, isn’t that one and the same?).
But seriously, seeing certain changes is going to be hard, because it will be a reminder that Joe is no longer here. I guess, subconciously, that other than Joe no longer coaching, I still wanted Joe to be around and guide the program and oversee it, but just not be involved in the coaching and day-to-day running of the program. I know that is not realistic, even if Joe were still alive and in decent health. As hard, and perhaps emotional and heartbreaking as it’s going to be, O’Brien has every right to make changes he sees fit. It is his program now. If the kids want beards and hair like Troy Polamalou, the truth of the matter is that hair is irrelevant if we play hard, clean football with true student athletes that stay out of trouble. That’s what it’s about. That’s what we’re about. That’s why WE ARE……PENN STATE!!!
The only things I hope to see stay the same are:
1. Win, obviously. But also win within NCAA guidelines. I can handle a few extra losses while O’Brien gets his feet wet. I hope the pressure doesn’t get to him and causes him to cut corners. I don’t think it will, but it is a concern.
2. Have our players continue to excel in class. Again, it’s what we do. It’s who we are.
3. Have the players stay out of trouble.
4. No matter what other changes need to be made to move forward, DO NOT CHANGE THE UNIFORMS.
Ab4PSU - February 3, 2012
pretty much just this.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
It just dawned on me
how weird it would be to see Troy Polamalu’s hair flying around the back of a Penn State uniform. I love Troy, but I don’t think I would like that.
Not everyone has to have crew cuts and clean shave, but I do hope it stays presentable.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Chaz Powell..
had a major freakin’ Afro. Not far off from Polamalu
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Chaz's Afro was the shit
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Indeed
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
yeah, but it didn
NuclearLion - February 3, 2012
t stick out the back of his helmet.
i definitely agree with ryan on this. i don’t like seeing dreadlocks sticking out of helmets. it looks real dumb to me. i hope that doesn’t start happening here.
NuclearLion - February 3, 2012
Yeah, basically I want to see everyone look good in the uniforms
which basically means keeping the hair in the helmet. I also love Kiesel’s beard, but it just isn’t for Penn State, IMO. As long as everyone looks good in uniform, and presentable out of it, I don’t really care. Having said that, it really isn’t that big an issue for me.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Maybe I'm in the minority on this
but I don’t care about the dreadlocks/long hair thing at all. Half the guys are tatted up anyway, so what’s the point of making them cut their hair?
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
Find me a guy who spelled "God's Gift" out with his dreadlocks and we'll talk.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
My point is
that Joe instituted the no beards/no long hair to promote the idea that they were a team anot to individuals, correct? Well, when everyone on the team has their own individual tat sleeves, that really sort of renders that moot.
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
Yeah but my point is tattoos are hilarious and dreads are boring.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
it's an aesthetic thing from my viewpoint
tats i don’t mind at all. dreadlocks (or for that matter, stringy blonde hair) sticking out from the back of the helmet upsets me on a very basic level.
even if denard robinson wasn’t playing for michigan, i’d want to punch him in the face for that stupid hair. it’s dumb.
NuclearLion - February 3, 2012
So they shouldn't be allowed to have long hair or dreads because you think it looks dumb?
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
I base my entire wardrobe on avoiding what NuclearLion thinks looks dumb.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
^^^Is a pretty man^^^
jtothep - February 3, 2012
You know it.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Just the other day I was just admiring your
snowy white hair and beard in your avatar. CLoser look tells me that maybe that’s not a beard but a sweet fur stole.
rahpsu92 - February 3, 2012
sounds like someone has a thing for hairy albinos
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Yeah, why care?
If it actually made you better, sure. But it doesn’t.
cwarner28 - February 3, 2012
Polamalu doesn't have a fro
He has a lion’s mane. If it were a fro, it would have like a 3 foot diameter, easily.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
As long as it stays under the helmet, i'm ok.
belbijou - February 3, 2012
I agree, so far with BOB
I didn’t love the recruiting class but most of that isn’t his fault so I don’t blame him or the staff for the class they had. I was originally a little concerned when he was 1st rumored to have the job he agent released a statement, “that my client only aspires to be a head coach in the NFL. I don’t know how going back down to college helps him achieve that”. So far though I don’t mind anything he’s done. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he starts losing to bad teams. And I agree DO NOT TOUCH THE UNIFORMS !!
NJDeadhead - February 3, 2012
Random Question for the day
Would you rather have Urban Meyer at OSU for only 3 years, but know he would dominate those 3 years and win a MNC before leaving/retiring forever OR have Meyer only produce relatively good teams, 8-10 wins a season, with a real shot at beating him every year, but and still be all Urban Meyer-y in his recruiting and whatnot and have him stay for close to a decade?
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
option 2
hbeach08 - February 3, 2012
Hard question.
I really don’t know.
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
How is that hard?
You’d consider signing up for three years of (let’s say, cheat-free, hypothetically) 3 years of brutus dominance?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
THE QUESTION IS CONFUSING
I JUST WANT TO BEAT OSU
Artiefufkin10 - February 3, 2012
Ok, that makes sense
by the by, that new Tatiana still hasn’t shown up yet. I’ll have to wait til I return from vacation to assess the relative hotness. She may have a tough go of it proximity-wise, as her cube is been an Angelica & a Valentina, both with significant assets.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
I want the B1G to become the best conference in the country
If we can’t compete, hire another guy so we can. I want OSU to be as good as they can possibly be, and I want us to be better.
spakajewia - February 3, 2012
No.
Fuck Ohio State. I want pimp slap them around like ho’s. I want a series of 63-14’s.
Ab4PSU - February 3, 2012
Eh, fuck the B1G.
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
I see what you're saying
Be the best by being better, not by everyone else being worse. I agree. But out of the choices above I still pick #2
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
I used to want good things for the rest of the B1G
but after seeing how the rest of the conference acted, first with respec to Nebby coming in, and second the whole JS thing, well I don’t give a rats ass about them anymore. They can all lose all their games from now on.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Yeah, I don't want the B1G to ever succeed.
With regards to conference strength, let our results speak for themselves.
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
I want PSU to go unbeaten every year
but frankly I don’t care if the Big Ten is any good and I don’t want OSU to win another game, ever.
FB6244 - February 3, 2012
We agree again.
Twice in a row!
Chest bump, bitch!
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
Holy crap
Are we on each other’s Christmas card list now too?
FB6244 - February 3, 2012
/obligatory
dbl5030 - February 3, 2012
We're happy houring it, boss.
Uhaul - February 3, 2012
I really don't see him dominating.
Why did he leave Florida? He says health. Look at the talent in the state of Florida, ane he walks away? Come on, man. The pressure in Division I-A football is intense, and Meyer might not like the other bullshit that comes with coaching at that level.
Also, with all Florida’s talent, what was Florida’s record in Meyer’s last year. We should have beaten Florida in the bowl game if it wouldn’t have been for McPickSix.
Meyer is somebody we’re going to have to contend with, no doubt. But he’s no Joe Paterno.
Ab4PSU - February 3, 2012
Easily option 2
Option 2 has at least 3 positives:
1) Beat tOSU
2) Meyer further drags tOSU’s name through the mud (though for the record I’m not totally convinced he’s a bad guy…but let’s assume otherwise for right now)
3) 10 years of both of the above = more pain for tOSU fans
And let me just say that I actually was very impressed by the number of tOSU fans that were supportive of Penn State after Joe’s passing. My desire to see them fail is far less motivated by anything malicious now than it used to be.
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
I should clarify
option 2 doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re good and are dominating, but rather most years we have as good a shot at beating them as anyone else. Conversely, option 1 doesn’t mean we’re bad either, just that they’re probably going to be better. So, we could go 11-1 and make a BCS bowl every year, but it means a loss to OSU (but Urbz gone in 3 years), whereas option 2 could mean we could go 7-5 and win/lose a close one to OSU (and Urbz is gonna hang around for a while).
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Ah, in that case none of the above
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
THATS NOT AN OPTION!
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Well...
Nittany_Ryan - February 3, 2012
Anything to get us closer to national prominence.
dbl5030 - February 3, 2012
That's odd.
why does the pound sign and 2 get reformatted to be:
#2
dbl5030 - February 3, 2012
Or not
There are two kids of people in this world:
2) me
dbl5030 - February 3, 2012
I give up.
#2
dbl5030 - February 3, 2012
No question for me - option 2.
icavalera - February 3, 2012
Option 2.
Which is the status quo. Plus his daughter is hot.
cwarner28 - February 3, 2012
I am not wild about the facial hair change.
It isn’t a deal breaker on BOB but nonetheless I am not thrilled.
I preface this all by saying I hate what the modern day Yankees represent in the grand scheme of things, and I love the shift that the modern day A’s have helped bring about in baseball.
But when I think of facial hair I think back to those early 00 Oakland A’s and New York Yankee’s teams. Both teams were highly talented, both teams were fun to watch. But the A’s with their long hair and beards simply did not convey a sense of business that the Yankees had.
In terms of branding and non-verbal messaging I have always saw Penn State as having more in common with the Yankees than the A’s of the world.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
As a Bronx baby, I see what you're saying.
I’m not crazy about the change either. But at the end of the day it is just hair, and the non-verbal messages can be sent through conduct on the field just as well— if not better— than the length of that stuff on their heads.
If they change the uniforms I may have a fit. This is selfish and silly, but I hope BOB confirms the fact that he isn’t changing the uniforms every time he gives an interview.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
I guess what I'm trying to say is
that it’s one thing to look the part and another thing entirely to act it. Penn State spoils its fans in that it’s usually known for both, but the only really important part is the latter.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
I've always recoiled at this comparison
In terms of branding and non-verbal messaging I have always saw Penn State as having more in common with the Yankees than the A’s of the world.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
It makes sense.
Penn State and the Yanks both went for the same old school disciplined look, though their motives for doing so are layered. If you’re at all interested in either sport, you should recognize the looks immediately. There’s a certain amount of power in that.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
Paterno specifically cited the Yankees of his youth as his inspiration for simplicity and attention to detail
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
I always wondered why he wasn't a Dodger fan.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
I don't remember his allegiance being to the Yankees
More of “look at the way they look, their looks match their standards” type of thing.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Yeah, but as a Brooklyn Dodger fan...
He would have had to have hated the Yankees.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
He did, but was impressed by their shiny black shoes.
Seriously. Loved the Dodgers but saw the Yanks play the Cards (I think?) in the World Series. It’s detailed a bit in The Lion in Autumn.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
Really?
Not talking baseball with Joe when I had the chance is going to be one of the great regrets of my life.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
Not being able to meet him in person
Is one of mine.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
I hate the Yankees
I cannot understate that enough. The Yankees crushed my Braves teams as a youngster, and they epitomize the economic disparity that keeps my Pirates in a lower echelon of the sport (yes, I realize it has WAY more to do with mismanagement and poor drafting but give me something to rail against please). But I still respect the standards they uphold as an organization.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Me too
Anytime anybody mentions Jim Leyritz I get angry.
Crap, I just made myself angry.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
You should be angry at Mark Wohlers for throwing a slider
OmarLittle - February 3, 2012
Yea, there's that too
and there’s Kirby Puckett and Jack Morris to be angry at as well. The list of shattered childhood dreams is a long one.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
You gotta give it up for Kirby taking a whiz in the Mall of America parking lot though.
credit where it’s due
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Hey man
when you gotta go, you gotta go. He had no way of knowing that it was a fake tree and that he wasn’t outside in a forest.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Well he could have had
Uromicotisis, which is a serious condition.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Because he killed someone?
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
Oh yea
I forgot about that.
Eh, I can’t get too upset about that, afterall, everybody does. Steals from you, steals from me, murders, whatever.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
So when the Braves and Pirates played in the NLCS in the early 90's,
who did you root for?
icavalera - February 3, 2012
Hate the Yanks
But they have the best uniforms. By far.
The Dodgers uniforms are good too.
Long dreads would look weird, but for a lot of guys, it means something important to them. it’s not just fashion. Troy Polamolu is a class guy. He’s not wearing his hair like that just to be a rebel. I think it’s a Polynesian thing.
Likewise, Syracuse lacrosse always seems to have at least one guy off the reservation with a long braid. Gotta represent the culture.
Having said all of that, I’m concerned that Matt McLovin is growing a neck beard.
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Why the recoil?
The Yankees, as much as I hate them Pirates/Braves fan, have exemplified crisp, clean cut excellence. Penn State is/was known for that as well. The subtle class that was conveyed by the appearance of the team, from the uniforms all the way though the dress of the assistants.
It appears as if we are slowly moving away from that it.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Petty insistence on individualism I guess
But I can begrudgingly admit that Joe was influenced by his upbringing and proximity.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
I guess this is where we diverge
From my own experience in the game of football I find individualism as a root for cancer on a team. In football a team is one unit working towards a common goal. Therefore I abhor acts of individualism. My teams don’t do it, nor will they.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Nah, sorry, I wasn't clear
My petty insistence was that Penn State was individualistic & unique, standing on its own merits and unbesmirched by the pinstriped ones.
Which I then admitted I can understand isn’t true.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
lol okay
I thought you had some Rage Against the Machine music going in the background and were expressing your desire for individualism as expression, or some hippy bs.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Ha! I'm not beyond that, certainly ;)
…hippy bs.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
I get that.
Though I don’t know if it’s fair to always think of Penn State to be individualistic and unique. Especially since we often celebrate those merits by comparing ourselves to other schools.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
As for within the scope of a team
I dig the mandates to think Team First, and appreciate the difficulty of leading a group of young individuals. I’m also a little scared of the autocracies that some coaches take it to these days, but am def with you on team first, individualism less so.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
The only real individualism I allow is names on the back of the jerseys
And that is for meeting individual lifting and non-mandatory goals that better the team. It was the one carrot I felt was worth dangling. Besides we wear Alabama knock-offs and it looks cool.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
It is great to see BO'B not yelling about Urban's recruiting
The last thing I want to see is our coach having a hissy fit about the way another coach does something. I just hope next year we can steal some of OSU players. Or what will be a lot of fun to watch would be beating OSU every year those players are there.
jetskijoe - February 3, 2012
Glad you posted this.
Saved me the trouble. :o)
CvilleLion - February 3, 2012
Look.....
it has been said 100 times over that we must give BOB a chance….hell, he hasn’t coached a down for PSU in anger yet…..I agree on the “don’t change the uinforms”, however, it has been reported that Guido is interested in a “Throw Back Uni Day” if indeed the change is made.
DerryPharmer - February 3, 2012
What's this mean?
I don’t know this phrase. Help an ignernt brotha out?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Really?.....
One can “coach” a team in practice, in an exhibition or a B/W game for example, but until BOB, for instance coaches a game against an opponent when it counts, that’s when it’s “anger”. Nothing sinister, just a phrase I heard along time ago and thought it good enough to steal.
DerryPharmer - February 3, 2012
ahh, gotcha. Thanks.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
If the change is made I am out
Peace
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
I'd be supportive of a throwback uni game.
icavalera - February 3, 2012
Me to
Throwback to the ’82 season.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Not much to change there, except for the color of the facemasks.
icavalera - February 3, 2012
Okay
’86 season
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
I kinda want to see them play in black and pink.
Just once.
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
I was thinking of something from the late 60's, early 70's.
icavalera - February 3, 2012
'78
See a trend here?
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Yes.
icavalera - February 3, 2012
I'd be ok with that
Throw the numbers back on the helmets for a game. It’ll be 40 years since Capalleti’s Heisman next year, could be a good time to do it.
LAPSU - February 3, 2012
I feel like throwbacks and those Pro Combat things
are just to drum up interest in a team or flat out money grabs from selling merch, two things PSU doesn’t need. Now if you’re going to do it this one year to celebrate the 30 year anniversary of the 82 team, then I’d be slightly more ok with it.
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
After Phil Knight's speech at the memorial
If he’d like us to rock Pro Combat once a year, I say bring it on. He deserves it.
I’m probably the only one, but I’m at least curious to see what they’d come up with.
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
I'd hope Knight would know better
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I thought I saw that they did design one
Basically looked like our regulars but a big more shinny.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
I've seen a bunch of fan-made mock-ups
Did Nike actually release a concept drawing?
DrewRusse - February 3, 2012
I swore I saw it
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
Is Nanticoke
a big more shinny?
PSUGuru - February 3, 2012
Are you sure you want a return of the exposed midsection?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
That look is/was terrible.
Bob Sacamano - February 3, 2012
It worked for them that season
Why not.
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
It's actually against the rules.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Eh rules.
Whatever
AriesGD - February 3, 2012
And that's not to put words in your mouth. Maybe you do:
jtothep - February 3, 2012
BIG MESH
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
BANDAIDS ON THE NIPPLES!
jtothep - February 3, 2012
Mother Dunn Throwbacks!!
That’s what I want. No pads. Just a turtleneck sweater with a big S.
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Mother Dunn Throwbacks!!
That’s what I want. No pads. Just a turtleneck sweater with a big S.
reedjohnmiller - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I don't know about anyone else but
I’m patiently waiting for the next scandal to engulf tOSU. I don’t care if it takes 30 years.
Dr.TobiasFunke - February 3, 2012
Me too Doc.
DerryPharmer - February 3, 2012
I'm over it.
No more scandals, please. Just football.
dwf5095 - February 3, 2012
A definite "Me too" on that.
DerryPharmer - February 3, 2012
This.
ReddWhitenBlue - February 3, 2012
Off topic
But I don’t feel like doing a FanPost.
Phil Mickelson has sued to learn the identity of an internet message board poster to sue them for defamation. That is pretty interesting.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Oh. Shit.
[frantically goes and deletes “Phil Mickelson chokes” photoshops from websites]
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Phil Mickelson is my baby daddy
He needs to man up and tell MJ to stop messing with his hoes.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Interesting...
I have heard similiar stuff from people I know around the PGA tour.
Esteban d' Amur - February 3, 2012
That is interesting.
It’s also interesting that Phil Mickelson has gorgeous, luscious man boobs.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Ha, lots of awesome contained therein
To wit:
1. ‘vexatious statements’ is a wonderful description of what we do here
2. Alleged defamer goes by ‘Fogroller’
3. The idea that even if Videotron (another winner name) can identify this alleged defamer down to anything more than an email or ip address, that seeking ‘reparation for the prejudices already suffered’ would amount to stopping ‘the dissemination of false and wrongful statements’ is pretty funny.
jtothep - February 3, 2012
What I think is funny
Is that I’d never heard any of this before, and now I have.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Mickelson won't even get past the pleadings on something like that.
He’s very much a public figure.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
Unless someone said something like
He has a penis that is actually inverted, is premature and smells like a sulfur mine, then I agree.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
HEY THAT IS A LEGITIMATE MEDICAL CONDITION!
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
I think that’s pretty much garden variety decimation when published with reckless regard to whether or not it’s true or false.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
That doesn't mean you can recklessly defame him.
It means you have more latitude to criticism him. Jerry Falwell took Larry Flynt all the way to the Supreme Court on that (I know because I saw the movie, it had lots of bobbies in it), he lost, but it got past the pleadings. And the reason Falwell lost was not because he was a public figure, but because what Flynt was doing was determined to be “political satire”.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
CHEERIO GUV'NA!
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
I think everybody missed
this one, World. But nice, anyway!
PSUGuru - February 3, 2012
They can't all be big bouncin' boobies.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Modern Medicine disagrees with you
I disagree with you. Larry Flynt disagrees with you. I do not find your views intriguing, I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Yeah, but I bet
they were ridin’ bicycles, two by two…
PSUGuru - February 3, 2012
I agree, but this kind of suit against "anonymous message board posters" is the kind that gets laughed off the docket.
Adam Collyer - February 3, 2012
I don't know.
I’m not anonymous. The majority of people don’t know my name, but if they cared to find out, they certainly could. Moreover, I like to pretend that if I wrote something here that started off with “I’ve heard this, and I believe it to be true” that people could reasonably rely on that. So I believe that I could defame someone in the comments section here.
Second, I don’t think that I, or anybody else, should be allowed to recklessly write false things. That’s not say I have to source everything I write, or that I can’t write that “Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU”.
I honestly don’t have a problem with this.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
How do you reconcile these two things?
What’s the important distinction between Fogroller’s contributions and the Craig James googlebomb?
jtothep - February 3, 2012
I don't know that there is.
The google bomb is obviously not true. It’s like Jerry Falwell had sex with his Mom in an outhouse. It’s obvious satire directed at a public person.
The context of how the Mickelson thing was written would mean everything. Keep in mind, I think the person who wrote it would have to know it was false, and hold it out there as though he knew it to be true.
But suppose I say that person X is being sued in Court in Allegheny county for child support for an out of wedlock having an baby. You could realistically believe that. And if I said it knowing it wasn’t true, I think it’s defamation.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
please insert for having a baby outside of his marriage.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
That's some might fine Engrish you got there jesse.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Got it
And, somehow, we’re back to the semantics of honesty…
jtothep - February 3, 2012
It's more about responsible use of free speech.
Not necessarily the same thing.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
Craig James killed 5 hookers while at SMU?
I had never heard of this before. I will rely on your message board post.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Yes, but your reliance on the statement is not reasonable.
That’s the rub.
jesse. - February 3, 2012
I think CJK5HWASMU
has reached the point where its unreasonable to doubt its veracity.
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
Count me as a true believer
I even have a rubber bracelet with CJ5HWASMU
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Mine just says RT5
Kyle_Martin - February 4, 2012
Well...
you do have very small wrists.
leeharvey418 - February 4, 2012
Has SBB
commented on it yet? If so, then it is undoubtedly true.
jman07 - February 3, 2012
Is there a credible source
the Craig James killed 5 hookers while at SMU? If not, I refuse to believe it.
PSU Mudder - February 3, 2012
You're obviously unfamiliar with the new rules of journalism.
Print first, ask questions later.
leeharvey418 - February 4, 2012
The problem is that no credible source has denied it.
MainLion - February 4, 2012
CJKFHAS?
That isn’t defamation it is truff.
carolinaeasy - February 3, 2012
Well you'd think that
But it appears he won: http://www.vancouversun.com/story_print.html?id=6097639
Kyle_Martin - February 4, 2012
His moobs jiggle with glee.
WorldBFat - February 4, 2012
came for the boobies
stayed for the….boobies.
smh244 - February 3, 2012
Do you really know the parameters of this claim in a Canadian court?
PSUinBOSSton - February 3, 2012
Doesn't each side get one grizzly bear as co-counsel in Canadian court?
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
The judge carries a hockey stick instead of a gavel
kijana's acl - February 3, 2012
I thought it was an unarmed mountie
vs. an armed grizzly
OctaShields - February 3, 2012
I think you're think of
the sheriff in the courtroom, who is a bear. That or your confusing each sides’ counsel drinking a jar of Grizzly piss when the judge enters.
PSUinBOSSton - February 3, 2012
If they really have bears in the Canadian courtrooms in any capacity, I want to get barred in Canada.
Even if the grizzly piss thing is true.
WorldBFat - February 3, 2012
Barred in, barred from, whatever.
If they didn’t want me pissing off the edge of Horseshoe Falls, they wouldn’t have given it that swirlie function.
MainLion - February 3, 2012
Bobettes
I like.
misdreavus79 - February 3, 2012
'Cause...
Beards and ballcaps are gonna equate to more wins and less suckitude on the offensive side of the ball…
pennst92 - February 3, 2012
I hate pants.
MainLion - February 3, 2012
And...
as an old timer, not Derry old, but old enough, seeing the program change is very tough to accept. I feel like we’ve moved from Penn State Football to football at Penn State. Sigh.
MainLion - February 3, 2012
Its sad
But so necessary I would be afraid for this team and for this program if BOB didn’t do things his way a bit. I’m not saying ignore the grand experiment, but I mean beards and stuff, that’s in my opinion small bananas
Modanya - February 3, 2012
You're not gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe?
It should be more natural, brother. It should flow out, like this – “Look, man, I ain’t fallin’ for no banana in my tailpipe!”
skarocksoi - February 3, 2012
Psst - hey ska...
it’s sister, not brother.
leeharvey418 - February 4, 2012
SHHHHH I'm a robot
Modanya - February 4, 2012
I know shes a girl
I’m just giving a direct quote from Beverly Hills Cop; a movie that rises above simple genders.
skarocksoi - February 4, 2012
Though
I did get the reference =D
Modanya - February 5, 2012
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